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Oh, no, definitely disappointing! At least to me it is. I totally believe in learning new things for the sake of it, because it sometimes leads to serendipitous

Oh, no, definitely disappointing! At least to me it is. I totally believe in learning new things for the sake of it, because it sometimes leads to serendipitously good things. Otherwise it's really easy to end up in local optima. Without that philosophy, I would have never built ripgrep. I'm not trying to convince you to do that. I already told you that your philosophy is reasonable. But I absolutely find it disappointing. Anyway, yes, I have a kid. And all sorts of other things competing for my time. So I don't get much time to do serendipitous learning. But I try when I can. I cited two examples, but that's over a period of many years. I don't have time to do it often. > you’d see we are pretty like minded with regards to modernising the command line I bet we are. Maybe you are a lot more open to learning new things than you are letting on in your comments here. :-)

hnlmorg 2y ago
If you’re willing to commit time to learning my shell then I’m willing to commit time to learning ripgrep. ;-) https://murex.rocks https://murex.rocks Edit: > I bet we are. Maybe you are a lot more open to learning new things than you are letting on in your comments here. Oh absolutely I’m open to learning new things. Just recently I’ve been learning about tmux control mode (eg what iTerm2 uses for tmux integration) because I wanted to bypass tmux terminal emulation for specific escape codes, meaning I can then draw native elements inside a terminal window, such as spreadsheets, images, and code folding, while still having full tmux capabilities. That was a “fun” ride. I plan on writing a blog about it at some point because there’s some features about tmux that I think others would be surprised to learn.
- burntsushi 2y ago
  Oh man that's nowhere near fair! ripgrep is one tiny little command that is mostly compatible with GNU grep. Lots of the flags are the same. And its default usage is really easy: `rg whatever`. But I gave it ten minutes and ported part of https://github.com/BurntSushi/dotfiles/blob/bedf3598f2501ad56610b0ea2decd9f44ca241c9/bin/xcp https://github.com/BurntSushi/dotfiles/blob/bedf3598f2501ad5... to https://github.com/BurntSushi/dotfiles/blob/bedf3598f2501ad56610b0ea2decd9f44ca241c9/bin/xcp-murex https://github.com/BurntSushi/dotfiles/blob/bedf3598f2501ad5... Not much, but it took me some time to get the basics down. One thing that stood out to me was that startup times are kinda brutal. I'm not sure if that's intended or if it's something about my environment: $ cat /tmp/murex-test #!/usr/bin/murex echo $ARGV $ time /tmp/murex-test [ "/usr/bin/murex", "/tmp/murex-test" ] real 0.437 user 0.491 sys 0.110 maxmem 106 MB faults 0 $ murex --version murex v6.4.2063 (develop) GPL v2 2018-2025 Laurence Morgan That would probably be a deal breaker for me. I got murex through the AUR: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/murex https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/murex > Oh absolutely I’m open to learning new things. Okay then I'd say this is high contrast with your comments above!
  - hnlmorg 2y ago
    Yeah I’ve not spent time optimising start up because it’s main emphasis is the interactive shell. I guess you could liken it to Powershell or JVM in that the start up is generally a one time cost if you’re using it interactively. I could certainly invest a little time on the start up though. It wouldn’t be impossible to improve things there. > Okay then I'd say this is high contrast with your comments above! Is it though? I didn’t say I’m adverse to learning new things. Just that I don’t want to learn replacements for the tools I’ve already memorised. But anyway, you’ve downloaded murex so I’ll give ripgrep go. I’m sure it’ll become a staple tool for me now I’ve committed time to it :)
    - burntsushi 2y ago
      Yeah I started with the shell script route because it felt like the best way to get familiar with it quickly. Then I'd probably go backwards to interactive usage. The error messages did look very nice. I have been considering dipping my toes into a less standard shell over the past few years. It is so so so hard to break away from the ubiquitous bullshit that most of us are stuck with. I have no love for the Bourne shell and its derivatives, although zsh is some nice lipstick on a very ugly pig. The other candidates I'm aware of are fish, nushell and oils. I think nushell is the "most" different, but the last time I tried it, I bounced off of it for reasons I can't remember.
      - hnlmorg 2y ago
        Yeah, switching shell is a major time investment. I couldn’t blame you for sticking with the default, after all, I was initially unwilling to invest time into learning ripgrep :D And you’re right that it wasn’t a fair a trade asking you to look at Murex in exchange for ripgrep (which is nice by the way!) but I respect that you did take a look nonetheless.

hnlmorg 2y ago

If you’re willing to commit time to learning my shell then I’m willing to commit time to learning ripgrep. ;-) https://murex.rocks https://murex.rocks Edit: > I bet we are. Maybe you are a lot more open to learning new things than you are letting on in your comments here. Oh absolutely I’m open to learning new things. Just recently I’ve been learning about tmux control mode (eg what iTerm2 uses for tmux integration) because I wanted to bypass tmux terminal emulation for specific escape codes, meaning I can then draw native elements inside a terminal window, such as spreadsheets, images, and code folding, while still having full tmux capabilities. That was a “fun” ride. I plan on writing a blog about it at some point because there’s some features about tmux that I think others would be surprised to learn.

burntsushi 2y ago
Oh man that's nowhere near fair! ripgrep is one tiny little command that is mostly compatible with GNU grep. Lots of the flags are the same. And its default usage is really easy: `rg whatever`. But I gave it ten minutes and ported part of https://github.com/BurntSushi/dotfiles/blob/bedf3598f2501ad56610b0ea2decd9f44ca241c9/bin/xcp https://github.com/BurntSushi/dotfiles/blob/bedf3598f2501ad5... to https://github.com/BurntSushi/dotfiles/blob/bedf3598f2501ad56610b0ea2decd9f44ca241c9/bin/xcp-murex https://github.com/BurntSushi/dotfiles/blob/bedf3598f2501ad5... Not much, but it took me some time to get the basics down. One thing that stood out to me was that startup times are kinda brutal. I'm not sure if that's intended or if it's something about my environment: $ cat /tmp/murex-test #!/usr/bin/murex echo $ARGV $ time /tmp/murex-test [ "/usr/bin/murex", "/tmp/murex-test" ] real 0.437 user 0.491 sys 0.110 maxmem 106 MB faults 0 $ murex --version murex v6.4.2063 (develop) GPL v2 2018-2025 Laurence Morgan That would probably be a deal breaker for me. I got murex through the AUR: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/murex https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/murex > Oh absolutely I’m open to learning new things. Okay then I'd say this is high contrast with your comments above!
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  Yeah I’ve not spent time optimising start up because it’s main emphasis is the interactive shell. I guess you could liken it to Powershell or JVM in that the start up is generally a one time cost if you’re using it interactively. I could certainly invest a little time on the start up though. It wouldn’t be impossible to improve things there. > Okay then I'd say this is high contrast with your comments above! Is it though? I didn’t say I’m adverse to learning new things. Just that I don’t want to learn replacements for the tools I’ve already memorised. But anyway, you’ve downloaded murex so I’ll give ripgrep go. I’m sure it’ll become a staple tool for me now I’ve committed time to it :)
  - burntsushi 2y ago
    Yeah I started with the shell script route because it felt like the best way to get familiar with it quickly. Then I'd probably go backwards to interactive usage. The error messages did look very nice. I have been considering dipping my toes into a less standard shell over the past few years. It is so so so hard to break away from the ubiquitous bullshit that most of us are stuck with. I have no love for the Bourne shell and its derivatives, although zsh is some nice lipstick on a very ugly pig. The other candidates I'm aware of are fish, nushell and oils. I think nushell is the "most" different, but the last time I tried it, I bounced off of it for reasons I can't remember.
    - hnlmorg 2y ago
      Yeah, switching shell is a major time investment. I couldn’t blame you for sticking with the default, after all, I was initially unwilling to invest time into learning ripgrep :D And you’re right that it wasn’t a fair a trade asking you to look at Murex in exchange for ripgrep (which is nice by the way!) but I respect that you did take a look nonetheless.