4 ms·

Could you please point me to which countries/industries those are? Just a link is fine. Googling isn't helping :(

bena 2y ago
Just in the US Screen Actors Guild Writers Guild of America Directors Guild of America NFL Players Association Now, I'll give you, SAG, WGA, and DGA don't control all film and television production and there are plenty of non-union jobs available. But most of the film and television you consume is union work. Every player in the NFL is required to be a member of the NFLPA.
- banannaise 2y ago
  The NFLPA functionally only deals with one company (the NFL) so it's not really a great example. Most professional sports leagues have a players' union specific to that league. The others, though, yes.
  - bena 2y ago
    Coaches and other front office personnel aren't required to enter a union to work for a club. There is a union for coaches and it's entirely voluntary. Which is why you won't see Belichick in most Madden games as his contract has to be negotiated separately.
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    The NFL does jot employ players, and is a separate company from the teams, which do, and which are also separate companies from each other.
- dylan604 2y ago
  > Now, I'll give you, SAG, WGA, and DGA don't control all film and television production and there are plenty of non-union jobs available. The thing about the "hollywood" unions is that they are very supportive of the others. So when the recent writer's strike was taking place, the actors also supported them as well as the directors by not working without their writers. If the auto union workers strike, the steel workers aren't stopping work in solidarity. If the stevedores go on strike, the truck drivers don't go on strike in solidarity.
  - Animats 2y ago
    Not any more. That's called a "secondary boycott", and has been illegal in the US since 1959. Before that, it was common for union truckers to refuse to cross a picket line. When a company's workers went on strike, deliveries by Teamsters stopped. American labor law was written when unions were much stronger. It assumes strong unions and strong employers in conflict, with the NLRB as referee. That hasn't been true in the US for decades now.
- drakonka 2y ago
  And just to be clear - there is an actual law forcing you to join these unions and pay their membership fees? (Not in the US, maybe this law is actually common knowledge that went completely over my head so far!)
  - jcranmer 2y ago
    My understanding is that it's not so much a law as it is a contract between the union and the employer that prohibits the employer from hiring people who don't join the union.
    - drakonka 2y ago
      Ah ok, but that seems very different from the comment I was replying to, which said "In some countries/industries you have to be a member of an union by the law. Just by working in industry, union is forced upon you by law, and you have to pay their fees." - that seems pretty drastic, so I was specifically curious about examples of law-mandated union membership/fee payment.
- rascul 2y ago
  > Every player in the NFL is required to be a member of the NFLPA. No they're not. It's optional.
butshouldyou 2y ago
We have a similar thing in Switzerland for the gastronomy (food and drinks) industry. The industry is pretty abusive - here and abroad - so the "union" makes sure there's protections for workers. Because of this, there's free management training, free skilled training, and holiday and pay minimums. Plus, free advice and legal support for workers.
jcranmer 2y ago
The terms you want to look for are "closed shop" and "union shop" (the difference between the two is that a union shop allows non-union members to be hired, but they have to join the union after being hired).
- Animats 2y ago
  Basic labor terms: - Closed shop - must be member of union to be hired. - Union shop - must join union when hired. - Agency shop - don't have to join union, but have to pay a fee to it. - Open shop - don't have to join union, but can. - Yellow-dog contract - not allowed to join union.[1] The two extremes are mostly illegal in the US. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow-dog_contract https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow-dog_contract
- drakonka 2y ago
  I was specifically looking for examples of the original commenter's referenced law-mandated unions: "In some countries/industries you have to be a member of an union by the law. Just by working in industry, union is forced upon you by law, and you have to pay their fees." Closed shops and union shops just seem like an arrangement between employers and unions, not something forced upon you "by law"?
philistine 2y ago
If you want to work construction in Québec.
- bsimpson 2y ago
  In Nevada (and I'm sure others), unions get to set the "prevailing wage," which is the legal minimum wage for work they bid on. So if your shop is more efficient than the union shop, you don't get to compete on that price savings. It tilts the market towards the unions.

bena 2y ago

Just in the US Screen Actors Guild Writers Guild of America Directors Guild of America NFL Players Association Now, I'll give you, SAG, WGA, and DGA don't control all film and television production and there are plenty of non-union jobs available. But most of the film and television you consume is union work. Every player in the NFL is required to be a member of the NFLPA.

banannaise 2y ago
The NFLPA functionally only deals with one company (the NFL) so it's not really a great example. Most professional sports leagues have a players' union specific to that league. The others, though, yes.
- bena 2y ago
  Coaches and other front office personnel aren't required to enter a union to work for a club. There is a union for coaches and it's entirely voluntary. Which is why you won't see Belichick in most Madden games as his contract has to be negotiated separately.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  The NFL does jot employ players, and is a separate company from the teams, which do, and which are also separate companies from each other.
dylan604 2y ago
> Now, I'll give you, SAG, WGA, and DGA don't control all film and television production and there are plenty of non-union jobs available. The thing about the "hollywood" unions is that they are very supportive of the others. So when the recent writer's strike was taking place, the actors also supported them as well as the directors by not working without their writers. If the auto union workers strike, the steel workers aren't stopping work in solidarity. If the stevedores go on strike, the truck drivers don't go on strike in solidarity.
- Animats 2y ago
  Not any more. That's called a "secondary boycott", and has been illegal in the US since 1959. Before that, it was common for union truckers to refuse to cross a picket line. When a company's workers went on strike, deliveries by Teamsters stopped. American labor law was written when unions were much stronger. It assumes strong unions and strong employers in conflict, with the NLRB as referee. That hasn't been true in the US for decades now.
drakonka 2y ago
And just to be clear - there is an actual law forcing you to join these unions and pay their membership fees? (Not in the US, maybe this law is actually common knowledge that went completely over my head so far!)
- jcranmer 2y ago
  My understanding is that it's not so much a law as it is a contract between the union and the employer that prohibits the employer from hiring people who don't join the union.
  - drakonka 2y ago
    Ah ok, but that seems very different from the comment I was replying to, which said "In some countries/industries you have to be a member of an union by the law. Just by working in industry, union is forced upon you by law, and you have to pay their fees." - that seems pretty drastic, so I was specifically curious about examples of law-mandated union membership/fee payment.
rascul 2y ago
> Every player in the NFL is required to be a member of the NFLPA. No they're not. It's optional.

butshouldyou 2y ago

We have a similar thing in Switzerland for the gastronomy (food and drinks) industry. The industry is pretty abusive - here and abroad - so the "union" makes sure there's protections for workers. Because of this, there's free management training, free skilled training, and holiday and pay minimums. Plus, free advice and legal support for workers.

jcranmer 2y ago

The terms you want to look for are "closed shop" and "union shop" (the difference between the two is that a union shop allows non-union members to be hired, but they have to join the union after being hired).

Animats 2y ago
Basic labor terms: - Closed shop - must be member of union to be hired. - Union shop - must join union when hired. - Agency shop - don't have to join union, but have to pay a fee to it. - Open shop - don't have to join union, but can. - Yellow-dog contract - not allowed to join union.[1] The two extremes are mostly illegal in the US. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow-dog_contract https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow-dog_contract
drakonka 2y ago
I was specifically looking for examples of the original commenter's referenced law-mandated unions: "In some countries/industries you have to be a member of an union by the law. Just by working in industry, union is forced upon you by law, and you have to pay their fees." Closed shops and union shops just seem like an arrangement between employers and unions, not something forced upon you "by law"?

philistine 2y ago

If you want to work construction in Québec.

bsimpson 2y ago
In Nevada (and I'm sure others), unions get to set the "prevailing wage," which is the legal minimum wage for work they bid on. So if your shop is more efficient than the union shop, you don't get to compete on that price savings. It tilts the market towards the unions.