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I would be careful with assuming that. In some countries/industries you have to be a member of an union by the law. Just by working in industry, union is forc

I would be careful with assuming that. In some countries/industries you have to be a member of an union by the law. Just by working in industry, union is forced upon you by law, and you have to pay their fees. The only way out, is to form your own union, with all paperwork. It really sucks for self employed folks.

billy99k 2y ago
[flagged]
- ty6853 2y ago
  There's a great video of a longshoreman union rep bragging about crushing America so 'his guys' could get by, all the while with totaly lost irony he said this on TV while wearing a gold chain, Rolex, and living in an absolutely lavish mansion. https://youtu.be/hr-isyMV1y8?si=6cHZ9Ey8hzJtSoFQ https://youtu.be/hr-isyMV1y8?si=6cHZ9Ey8hzJtSoFQ
  - therouwboat 2y ago
    So what? If workers don't get the money, it goes to company owners. I wonder what kinda mansions they have.
    - jibe 2y ago
      By company owners, did you mean my 401k? Or is it more that it causes higher prices, and everyday consumers pay for it?
      - ty6853 2y ago
        Given that particular strike was against in part automation it was that they wanted their port to become less competitive and eventually be destroyed by ports employing automation and not even jobs left for their kids to fix or engineer the machines.
      - banannaise 2y ago
        A small amount of it does go to your 401(k), yes. A much larger amount goes to executives, largely through stock-based compensation, and much wealthier investors.
    - ThrowawayR2 2y ago
      You are on a site for venture capitalists (i.e. company owners), tech startup founders (i.e. company owners), and tech startup / FAANG employees whose TC has a large component of stock (i.e. company owners). Just a wild guess but they probably don't see a problem with money going to the company owners.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
drakonka 2y ago
Could you please point me to which countries/industries those are? Just a link is fine. Googling isn't helping :(
- bena 2y ago
  Just in the US Screen Actors Guild Writers Guild of America Directors Guild of America NFL Players Association Now, I'll give you, SAG, WGA, and DGA don't control all film and television production and there are plenty of non-union jobs available. But most of the film and television you consume is union work. Every player in the NFL is required to be a member of the NFLPA.
  - banannaise 2y ago
    The NFLPA functionally only deals with one company (the NFL) so it's not really a great example. Most professional sports leagues have a players' union specific to that league. The others, though, yes.
    - bena 2y ago
      Coaches and other front office personnel aren't required to enter a union to work for a club. There is a union for coaches and it's entirely voluntary. Which is why you won't see Belichick in most Madden games as his contract has to be negotiated separately.
    - dragonwriter 2y ago
      The NFL does jot employ players, and is a separate company from the teams, which do, and which are also separate companies from each other.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    > Now, I'll give you, SAG, WGA, and DGA don't control all film and television production and there are plenty of non-union jobs available. The thing about the "hollywood" unions is that they are very supportive of the others. So when the recent writer's strike was taking place, the actors also supported them as well as the directors by not working without their writers. If the auto union workers strike, the steel workers aren't stopping work in solidarity. If the stevedores go on strike, the truck drivers don't go on strike in solidarity.
Retric 2y ago
The word is extremely overloaded. China has a lot of “unions” that exist to protect companies, avoid strikes, and stifle complaints not represent workers. That doesn’t have any relevance for American unions, but people seems to think any issue they ever had with a union applies to every union.
- skyyler 2y ago
  America has unions like this, too. Ask anyone that works for an Albertson's.
  - Retric 2y ago
    You might think they are overly cozy with Albertson’s but it’s a categorically different situation. I’d suggest you read up on “fake unions” it’s 1984 level double talk shit.
    - skyyler 2y ago
      No, really, it's a very similar thing. There are also fake unions in the United States in the cannabis industry. Pretty grim situation.
      - Retric 2y ago
        I can see why you might think they are similar on the surface. However those are paperwork exercises without any leverage that run into legal issues inside the US. “Anyone who signed a labor peace agreement with ProTech Local 33 has 90 days from the ruling to sign a new pact with a legitimate union or risk losing their license” The Chinese version is stable as they are being actively propped up by the state.
        skyyler 2y ago
        Can you provide some concrete information about this? It's less that I don't believe you and more that I would like to learn more.
julienEar 2y ago
It’s crazy how the definition of a union varies so much across contexts, contries/indus. Some prioritize bargaining power, while others focus more on advocacy and awareness.
gamblor956 2y ago
Just by working in industry, union is forced upon you by law, and you have to pay their fees. The only way out, is to form your own union, with all paperwork. It really sucks for self employed folks. The first statement is true in a few industries, but the second statements are false in any industry in which the first statement applies. If union membership is mandated, you don't get a choice in the union you join. And for the last bit about self-employed folks: the only industries which mandate union membership in which it is also possible to be self-employed are the Hollywood guilds, which set compensation minimums. Hollywood union members are free to negotiate higher compensation, and many do. The worst thing about all the anti-union FUD that gets spread on HN is that they assume that tech workers would be in the same kind of union as janitors, when the most similar structure would be the Hollywood guilds.

billy99k 2y ago

[flagged]

ty6853 2y ago
There's a great video of a longshoreman union rep bragging about crushing America so 'his guys' could get by, all the while with totaly lost irony he said this on TV while wearing a gold chain, Rolex, and living in an absolutely lavish mansion. https://youtu.be/hr-isyMV1y8?si=6cHZ9Ey8hzJtSoFQ https://youtu.be/hr-isyMV1y8?si=6cHZ9Ey8hzJtSoFQ
- therouwboat 2y ago
  So what? If workers don't get the money, it goes to company owners. I wonder what kinda mansions they have.
  - jibe 2y ago
    By company owners, did you mean my 401k? Or is it more that it causes higher prices, and everyday consumers pay for it?
    - ty6853 2y ago
      Given that particular strike was against in part automation it was that they wanted their port to become less competitive and eventually be destroyed by ports employing automation and not even jobs left for their kids to fix or engineer the machines.
    - banannaise 2y ago
      A small amount of it does go to your 401(k), yes. A much larger amount goes to executives, largely through stock-based compensation, and much wealthier investors.
  - ThrowawayR2 2y ago
    You are on a site for venture capitalists (i.e. company owners), tech startup founders (i.e. company owners), and tech startup / FAANG employees whose TC has a large component of stock (i.e. company owners). Just a wild guess but they probably don't see a problem with money going to the company owners.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

drakonka 2y ago

Could you please point me to which countries/industries those are? Just a link is fine. Googling isn't helping :(

bena 2y ago
Just in the US Screen Actors Guild Writers Guild of America Directors Guild of America NFL Players Association Now, I'll give you, SAG, WGA, and DGA don't control all film and television production and there are plenty of non-union jobs available. But most of the film and television you consume is union work. Every player in the NFL is required to be a member of the NFLPA.
- banannaise 2y ago
  The NFLPA functionally only deals with one company (the NFL) so it's not really a great example. Most professional sports leagues have a players' union specific to that league. The others, though, yes.
  - bena 2y ago
    Coaches and other front office personnel aren't required to enter a union to work for a club. There is a union for coaches and it's entirely voluntary. Which is why you won't see Belichick in most Madden games as his contract has to be negotiated separately.
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    The NFL does jot employ players, and is a separate company from the teams, which do, and which are also separate companies from each other.
- dylan604 2y ago
  > Now, I'll give you, SAG, WGA, and DGA don't control all film and television production and there are plenty of non-union jobs available. The thing about the "hollywood" unions is that they are very supportive of the others. So when the recent writer's strike was taking place, the actors also supported them as well as the directors by not working without their writers. If the auto union workers strike, the steel workers aren't stopping work in solidarity. If the stevedores go on strike, the truck drivers don't go on strike in solidarity.

Retric 2y ago

The word is extremely overloaded. China has a lot of “unions” that exist to protect companies, avoid strikes, and stifle complaints not represent workers. That doesn’t have any relevance for American unions, but people seems to think any issue they ever had with a union applies to every union.

skyyler 2y ago
America has unions like this, too. Ask anyone that works for an Albertson's.
- Retric 2y ago
  You might think they are overly cozy with Albertson’s but it’s a categorically different situation. I’d suggest you read up on “fake unions” it’s 1984 level double talk shit.
  - skyyler 2y ago
    No, really, it's a very similar thing. There are also fake unions in the United States in the cannabis industry. Pretty grim situation.
    - Retric 2y ago
      I can see why you might think they are similar on the surface. However those are paperwork exercises without any leverage that run into legal issues inside the US. “Anyone who signed a labor peace agreement with ProTech Local 33 has 90 days from the ruling to sign a new pact with a legitimate union or risk losing their license” The Chinese version is stable as they are being actively propped up by the state.
      - skyyler 2y ago
        Can you provide some concrete information about this? It's less that I don't believe you and more that I would like to learn more.

julienEar 2y ago

It’s crazy how the definition of a union varies so much across contexts, contries/indus. Some prioritize bargaining power, while others focus more on advocacy and awareness.

gamblor956 2y ago

Just by working in industry, union is forced upon you by law, and you have to pay their fees. The only way out, is to form your own union, with all paperwork. It really sucks for self employed folks. The first statement is true in a few industries, but the second statements are false in any industry in which the first statement applies. If union membership is mandated, you don't get a choice in the union you join. And for the last bit about self-employed folks: the only industries which mandate union membership in which it is also possible to be self-employed are the Hollywood guilds, which set compensation minimums. Hollywood union members are free to negotiate higher compensation, and many do. The worst thing about all the anti-union FUD that gets spread on HN is that they assume that tech workers would be in the same kind of union as janitors, when the most similar structure would be the Hollywood guilds.