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I've noticed this a ton lately. So, so many posts completely brigaded. Regardless of if the flag is removed, it can easily stop discussion and visibility of the

I've noticed this a ton lately. So, so many posts completely brigaded. Regardless of if the flag is removed, it can easily stop discussion and visibility of the thread. I emailed Dang about it when I first noticed it happening, and the response... ``` Sorry for the delay in getting back to you—it's been a crazy last few days! Users flagged that one. We can only guess why users flag things, but there have been so many posts about the current political goings-on that I think there's a lot of fatigue about it. In this case the article was more of an opinion piece than a factual report, so it's probably not one that we'd override the flags on. Daniel (dang) ``` So the system is setup to allow this abuse. It's weaponizing the flag system. I'm sure this type of flagging is already automated by how fast some posts disappear on /new. What's to stop someone from buying enough old accounts and mass flagging other topics to chill discussion / dissent? This could easily be done for a few grand. Rotate accounts doing the flagging and make sure they engage in some "high quality" discussion from time to time to avoid detection. Make sure the same groups of accounts aren't flagging the same posts, etc. E.g. "I never want to see a freaking post about Rust again"... Note: I had to wait hours to post this comment because my account was rate limited. I'm assuming because I'm involved in this discussion at all: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35157524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35157524 Now by the time I can actually post, this thread is well off the front page. This site is really good at effectively silencing people. Dang, I'd like to know the specific comments where I am going over the line, or are too "low-quality". I have been called out once or twice over the last decade by you, and have agreed that I could have conducted myself better in those instances and tried not to fall back into those patterns.

pas 2y ago
there's no need to buy old accounts (lol?), there are hundreds of millions of people worldwide who have extremely strong anti-immigration beliefs, who continue to cheer on the Republican-backed express cruelty for whatever reasons, and some of these people are active on HN receipts: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413634 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413634 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413955 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43411269 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43411269
- Tostino 2y ago
  > there's no need to buy old accounts There is if you want to do this systematically rather than adhoc. > there are hundreds of millions of people worldwide who have extremely strong anti-immigration beliefs Totally understood, and know they are here and will flag things they disagree with while still being a real human. I wasn't saying that is specifically what's happening with this post. I assume that's more what's happening when posts in /newest are flagged within a few min. That part was just saying "this really wouldn't be hard to do if anyone put in just a little bit of effort, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was happening".
leereeves 2y ago
[flagged]
- Tostino 2y ago
  I was responding to someone dismissing concerns as "reflexive hysteria." Historical parallels aren't uncivil, they help examine patterns. The HN guidelines discourage flamewars and personal attacks, neither of which I did. I challenged a characterization, not the person. If discussing historical parallels to current events is now considered inappropriate for HN, that would significantly narrow meaningful conversation beyond what the guidelines actually state. I'd love some clarification here.
- avmich 2y ago
  I'm sorry, is there a contradiction to guidelines? What wrong do you see in that post? I'm genuinely curious.
- tm-infringement 2y ago
  This is just tone policing, the comment doesn't contradict those guidelines. I should know them, I do break them all the time!
  - leereeves 2y ago
    Sorry, I strongly disagree. Comparing detaining someone for 10 days (for, apparently, a genuine violation of immigration law - self-employment on a TN visa) to killing twenty million people is in no way reasonable, and it's certainly not informative or curious. It's just a snarky ideological barb and a violation of those guidelines.
    - Tostino 2y ago
      That ellipsis that you put in my comment really is doing some heavy lifting here. Seems like you ignored everything else I said between those statements. It wasn't about one person being in jail for 10 days at all. I actually didn't mention that because I don't think it's one of the most pressing issues even if it is another example on the pile.
wswope 2y ago
I’ve emailed Dan and received the same response. My suspicions completely mirror yours. I find this line particularly weak: > We can only guess why users flag things It’s not that hard to do some clustering analysis to see if bad-faith actors are repeatedly flagging posts in a coordinated manner. Maybe he’s trying to avoid giving away anti-spam secret sauce, but that doesn’t seem likely given the language of the copypasta. Speaking for myself, I would like any sort of assurance that anything other than a 100% laissez-faire approach to flag abuse is happening.
- Teever 2y ago
  I've become skeptical of Dang's ability to remain impartial in this kind of stuff given that this organisation works with Elon Musk: https://events.ycombinator.com/ai-sus https://events.ycombinator.com/ai-sus
Aachen 2y ago
Sure, you can take anything to the extreme and then they'll have to mop that up. Until that's reality, the system mostly works. Let us know if you ever figure out the perfect flagging system where someone can't "buy old accounts en masse" or something

pas 2y ago

there's no need to buy old accounts (lol?), there are hundreds of millions of people worldwide who have extremely strong anti-immigration beliefs, who continue to cheer on the Republican-backed express cruelty for whatever reasons, and some of these people are active on HN receipts: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413634 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413634 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43413955 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43411269 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43411269

Tostino 2y ago
> there's no need to buy old accounts There is if you want to do this systematically rather than adhoc. > there are hundreds of millions of people worldwide who have extremely strong anti-immigration beliefs Totally understood, and know they are here and will flag things they disagree with while still being a real human. I wasn't saying that is specifically what's happening with this post. I assume that's more what's happening when posts in /newest are flagged within a few min. That part was just saying "this really wouldn't be hard to do if anyone put in just a little bit of effort, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was happening".

leereeves 2y ago

[flagged]

Tostino 2y ago
I was responding to someone dismissing concerns as "reflexive hysteria." Historical parallels aren't uncivil, they help examine patterns. The HN guidelines discourage flamewars and personal attacks, neither of which I did. I challenged a characterization, not the person. If discussing historical parallels to current events is now considered inappropriate for HN, that would significantly narrow meaningful conversation beyond what the guidelines actually state. I'd love some clarification here.
avmich 2y ago
I'm sorry, is there a contradiction to guidelines? What wrong do you see in that post? I'm genuinely curious.
tm-infringement 2y ago
This is just tone policing, the comment doesn't contradict those guidelines. I should know them, I do break them all the time!
- leereeves 2y ago
  Sorry, I strongly disagree. Comparing detaining someone for 10 days (for, apparently, a genuine violation of immigration law - self-employment on a TN visa) to killing twenty million people is in no way reasonable, and it's certainly not informative or curious. It's just a snarky ideological barb and a violation of those guidelines.
  - Tostino 2y ago
    That ellipsis that you put in my comment really is doing some heavy lifting here. Seems like you ignored everything else I said between those statements. It wasn't about one person being in jail for 10 days at all. I actually didn't mention that because I don't think it's one of the most pressing issues even if it is another example on the pile.

wswope 2y ago

I’ve emailed Dan and received the same response. My suspicions completely mirror yours. I find this line particularly weak: > We can only guess why users flag things It’s not that hard to do some clustering analysis to see if bad-faith actors are repeatedly flagging posts in a coordinated manner. Maybe he’s trying to avoid giving away anti-spam secret sauce, but that doesn’t seem likely given the language of the copypasta. Speaking for myself, I would like any sort of assurance that anything other than a 100% laissez-faire approach to flag abuse is happening.

Teever 2y ago
I've become skeptical of Dang's ability to remain impartial in this kind of stuff given that this organisation works with Elon Musk: https://events.ycombinator.com/ai-sus https://events.ycombinator.com/ai-sus

Aachen 2y ago

Sure, you can take anything to the extreme and then they'll have to mop that up. Until that's reality, the system mostly works. Let us know if you ever figure out the perfect flagging system where someone can't "buy old accounts en masse" or something