4 ms·

This is done at large scale right? I still can't affordable solar power method for my house.

by aynyc 2y ago

adrianN 2y ago
A kW of panels, an inverter and a few kWh of batteries can be had for 1k€ and can satisfy a large part of typical household demand.
- jloganolson 2y ago
  Is there like a blog or youtube series about how to do this? I imagine there's a smaller (more fun?) first step for maker/diy'ers than just calling sunrun, but googling around only sent me to panels/batteries for camping trips on amazon.
  - adrianN 2y ago
    You get a micro inverter, connect panels to the battery and the battery to the inverter and plug the inverter in a normal outlet. In Germany this setup is called „Balkonkraftwerk“ and you can buy the whole kit on Amazon.
tfourb 2y ago
Depending on where you are, residential pv usually pays for itself within 10 years, if dimensioned correctly and specced according to available subsidies. But you'll need a decent roughly south-facing roof.
- aynyc 2y ago
  No matter how hard I try, I can't get the math to work on 10 year period, and my electricity is expensive!
  - tfourb 2y ago
    What is "expensive"? I've invested 35.000 Euros into a 12 kwp PV system with 14kw/h in battery storage three years ago and I'm on track to recoup within 10 years. For me it works because I have a 60%+ share of usage (in contrast to feeding into the grid), heating my home and powering my car. A smaller system (i.e. 3kwp, no storage) will break even within 10 years for basically everyone, if you can buy panels at usual market rates and have energy prices in excess of 25 Cents/kwh. But in Germany basically no new residential building is built without at least 8 kwp rooftop solar due to quite generous subsidies for capital costs and feed in tariffs.
    - hnaccount_rng 2y ago
      The limiting factor for small systems is the one-off cost of the installation. You necessarily need to have this done by a certified person and that needs to go to your place and $DO_THINGS. That doesn't matter at 35kEUR, but it does at 5kEUR. But yes in Germany I think even pure grid batteries should pay for themselves with variable price tariffs. If you would only pay for the battery. But that only holds if you need to have an electrician there anyhow. That also explains why every _new_ building gets solar (not sure about the frequency of batteries)
      - tfourb 2y ago
        If installation cost is a limiting factor, you can do a lot of it yourself. A friend of mine had installed 15+ kwp, including running wires, with the electrician only doing the final wiring and verification, which drastically cuts down the costs.
        hnaccount_rng 2y ago
        I don't think that helps you very much, we are talking 2-3kEUR hardware costs. Even getting that person to your place and back will add significant percentages of overhead. And even going to smaller systems (that you apparently just plug in here in Germany, see sibling comment) are already getting too expensive to really work-out even under ideal assumptions
      - 2y ago
GTP 2y ago
This is done at larege scale, but IIRC if you invest in photovoltaic for your home you're supoosed to break even in about 10 years. But it may depend on local laws (read, incentives) and sun irradiation.
- epistasis 2y ago
  This is hugely variable, the "payoff time" is almost entirely driven by local rates for purchasing and selling electricity. And whether you need to pay $20-$50/month no matter how much electricity you consume. As such, the payback time is almost entirely a decision based on local regulatory policy, unconnected to the actual cost of the systems. The US also uses fragmented regulatory policy to make our residential solar cost many multiples more than other developed countries' costs.
epistasis 2y ago
If you are in the US, unaffordable residential solar is by design. First, there's the fragmented permitting scheme, second there's the boom-and-bust regulatory process of making it a financial winner or loser based on the PUC and utility whims of the years (and typically the utility wins and solar is uneconomical). This means that the successful solar installers are those that swoop in to a state/region when solar is a good financial idea, and install a ton, until it's made less of a good idea by the PUC. Then the solar installer needs to move on to other areas. The installers who succeed in this environment are the ones who spend a ton of money on customer acquisition; a few years ago I heard this was north of 30% of the costs of solar installers. Australia does it right. First, they allow a global free market of panels, second they have uniform and cheap permitting, third they have consistent policy on interconnection of the panels to the grid. IIRC US residential solar is typically >$3/kw, and it's usually $1/kW or less in Australia.
ElectRabbit 2y ago
At least in Germany solar panels are absurdly cheap right now. You can get a ~440W panel for around 40€. Latest generation and industrial grade. There are dozens of shops where you can pick them up after ordering.
- pjc50 2y ago
  Yes, that's the cheap bit.
Ekaros 2y ago
There is inherent cost in such installation. And I am starting to question if connected to grid they will make sense soon. If cost of energy produced is very low the payback might not happen. Specially with normal risks involved that is weather events and just being unlucky with things like inverters. Two factors really, cost of connecting to grid won't change, you will be more directly charged for peak load capacity. And on other hand produced power either pays little, or you could get it from grid for very cheap.
- aynyc 2y ago
  Even discounting the labor cost and sell to the power grid, I still can't find reasonable cost to get multiple kwh panels, batteries and inverter combo. I would love to be able to run the bulk of my house off solar power while getting supplemental power from the grid.
1970-01-01 2y ago
In the US, take a minute and look for 'shared renewables' or 'community solar' offerings in your state. They're the next best thing: https://www.epa.gov/green-power-markets/shared-renewables https://www.epa.gov/green-power-markets/shared-renewables

This is done at large scale right? I still can't affordable solar power method for my house.

by aynyc 2y ago

This is done at large scale right? I still can't affordable solar power method for my house.

A kW of panels, an inverter and a few kWh of batteries can be had for 1k€ and can satisfy a large part of typical household demand.

jloganolson 2y ago
Is there like a blog or youtube series about how to do this? I imagine there's a smaller (more fun?) first step for maker/diy'ers than just calling sunrun, but googling around only sent me to panels/batteries for camping trips on amazon.
- adrianN 2y ago
  You get a micro inverter, connect panels to the battery and the battery to the inverter and plug the inverter in a normal outlet. In Germany this setup is called „Balkonkraftwerk“ and you can buy the whole kit on Amazon.

tfourb 2y ago

Depending on where you are, residential pv usually pays for itself within 10 years, if dimensioned correctly and specced according to available subsidies. But you'll need a decent roughly south-facing roof.

aynyc 2y ago
No matter how hard I try, I can't get the math to work on 10 year period, and my electricity is expensive!
- tfourb 2y ago
  What is "expensive"? I've invested 35.000 Euros into a 12 kwp PV system with 14kw/h in battery storage three years ago and I'm on track to recoup within 10 years. For me it works because I have a 60%+ share of usage (in contrast to feeding into the grid), heating my home and powering my car. A smaller system (i.e. 3kwp, no storage) will break even within 10 years for basically everyone, if you can buy panels at usual market rates and have energy prices in excess of 25 Cents/kwh. But in Germany basically no new residential building is built without at least 8 kwp rooftop solar due to quite generous subsidies for capital costs and feed in tariffs.
  - hnaccount_rng 2y ago
    The limiting factor for small systems is the one-off cost of the installation. You necessarily need to have this done by a certified person and that needs to go to your place and $DO_THINGS. That doesn't matter at 35kEUR, but it does at 5kEUR. But yes in Germany I think even pure grid batteries should pay for themselves with variable price tariffs. If you would only pay for the battery. But that only holds if you need to have an electrician there anyhow. That also explains why every _new_ building gets solar (not sure about the frequency of batteries)
    - tfourb 2y ago
      If installation cost is a limiting factor, you can do a lot of it yourself. A friend of mine had installed 15+ kwp, including running wires, with the electrician only doing the final wiring and verification, which drastically cuts down the costs.
      - hnaccount_rng 2y ago
        I don't think that helps you very much, we are talking 2-3kEUR hardware costs. Even getting that person to your place and back will add significant percentages of overhead. And even going to smaller systems (that you apparently just plug in here in Germany, see sibling comment) are already getting too expensive to really work-out even under ideal assumptions
    - 2y ago

GTP 2y ago

This is done at larege scale, but IIRC if you invest in photovoltaic for your home you're supoosed to break even in about 10 years. But it may depend on local laws (read, incentives) and sun irradiation.

epistasis 2y ago
This is hugely variable, the "payoff time" is almost entirely driven by local rates for purchasing and selling electricity. And whether you need to pay $20-$50/month no matter how much electricity you consume. As such, the payback time is almost entirely a decision based on local regulatory policy, unconnected to the actual cost of the systems. The US also uses fragmented regulatory policy to make our residential solar cost many multiples more than other developed countries' costs.

epistasis 2y ago

If you are in the US, unaffordable residential solar is by design. First, there's the fragmented permitting scheme, second there's the boom-and-bust regulatory process of making it a financial winner or loser based on the PUC and utility whims of the years (and typically the utility wins and solar is uneconomical). This means that the successful solar installers are those that swoop in to a state/region when solar is a good financial idea, and install a ton, until it's made less of a good idea by the PUC. Then the solar installer needs to move on to other areas. The installers who succeed in this environment are the ones who spend a ton of money on customer acquisition; a few years ago I heard this was north of 30% of the costs of solar installers. Australia does it right. First, they allow a global free market of panels, second they have uniform and cheap permitting, third they have consistent policy on interconnection of the panels to the grid. IIRC US residential solar is typically >$3/kw, and it's usually $1/kW or less in Australia.

ElectRabbit 2y ago

At least in Germany solar panels are absurdly cheap right now. You can get a ~440W panel for around 40€. Latest generation and industrial grade. There are dozens of shops where you can pick them up after ordering.

pjc50 2y ago
Yes, that's the cheap bit.

Ekaros 2y ago

There is inherent cost in such installation. And I am starting to question if connected to grid they will make sense soon. If cost of energy produced is very low the payback might not happen. Specially with normal risks involved that is weather events and just being unlucky with things like inverters. Two factors really, cost of connecting to grid won't change, you will be more directly charged for peak load capacity. And on other hand produced power either pays little, or you could get it from grid for very cheap.

aynyc 2y ago
Even discounting the labor cost and sell to the power grid, I still can't find reasonable cost to get multiple kwh panels, batteries and inverter combo. I would love to be able to run the bulk of my house off solar power while getting supplemental power from the grid.

1970-01-01 2y ago

In the US, take a minute and look for 'shared renewables' or 'community solar' offerings in your state. They're the next best thing: https://www.epa.gov/green-power-markets/shared-renewables https://www.epa.gov/green-power-markets/shared-renewables