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That is literally what people are doing. “Written in Rust” has become a pretty convenient shorthand for “this was written by someone who cares deeply about qual

That is literally what people are doing. “Written in Rust” has become a pretty convenient shorthand for “this was written by someone who cares deeply about quality, and you can guess that it will be extremely fast, relatively free of bugs, and use as many cores as you want to throw at it”. While you’re out here complaining, the Rust community has built a truly impressive array of improved, human-focused command line tools (rg, bat, fd, hyperfine, delta, eza, and on and on) and a bunch of best-in-class libraries for building tools (regex comes to mind).

dietr1ch 2y ago
The ecosystem enables focusing on the task at hand. It's great that you don't need to get side-tracked at every single step. There's many high quality libraries.
BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
While mostly true, there's a large problem with lots of these Rust CLI tools (and I use some of them, don't misunderstand me): they often discard the UNIX philosophy in favour of newbie friendliness and glitter. For example, ripgrep shouldn't merge find and grep (actually, I use a personal wrapper around `find ... -exec grep ... {} +` because my only beef with this is that find's syntax to exclude stuff is horrible, https://git.sr.ht/~q3cpma/scripts/tree/master/item/find_grep https://git.sr.ht/~q3cpma/scripts/tree/master/item/find_grep). Or you see something like https://github.com/shssoichiro/oxipng/issues/629 https://github.com/shssoichiro/oxipng/issues/629 because people don't even know how to use xargs... Feels like if someone did a RIIR on ImageMagick, it'd be able to talk with Instagram and Flickr by itself or process RAW files like Darktable. Would probably have some kind of tagging system too.
- bbkane 2y ago
  I personally appreciate the newbie friendliness and glitter, and even the "make the common case easier at the expense of composability" tradoff, though I think tlmost of these tools are still relatively composable.
- burntsushi 2y ago
  I used a similar wrapper for years before I wrote ripgrep. But now all of those wrappers are gone because ripgrep covers all of their use cases (and then some). I'm not a newb and I don't really care about glitter. So I don't know where you're getting your condescension from personally. GNU grep discards the Unix philosophy in all sorts of places too. Like, why does it even bother with a -r flag in the first place? Did people back then not know how to use xargs either? I mean, POSIX knew not to include it[1], so what gives? What's actually happening here is that what matters is the user experience, and the Unix philosophy is a means, not an end, to improve the user experience. It's a heuristic. A rule of thumb to enable composition. But it doesn't replace good judgment. Sometimes you want a little more Unix and sometimes you want a little less. Besides, you can drop ripgrep into a shell pipeline just like you would grep. All that Unix-y goodness is still there. [1]: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/grep.html https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/g...
  - BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
    > GNU grep discards the Unix philosophy in all sorts of places too. Who ever claimed that GNU was a proponent of the UNIX philosophy? Certainly not me. > What's actually happening here is that what matters is the user experience, and the Unix philosophy is a means, not an end, to improve the user experience Yes and no. The expression "user experience" implies that all users are the same and benefit from the same philosophy of software interface design. > Besides, you can drop ripgrep into a shell pipeline just like you would grep. All that Unix-y goodness is still there. The "Unix-y goodness" isn't only defined by what it can do, but also what it can't do. I don't want to turn this into a suckless rant, so I won't. Also, not having a mode giving it POSIX grep compatibility really flies in the face of that claim: I want my scripts to work on BSD, MacOS and even Solaris/AIX without having to install stuff. ------ I know I may sound very smug but believe me when I say that I really like some of these utils and the care put into them (and I know you're the author of ripgrep) and that I'm no UNIX OpenBSD user (Plan 9 exists for a reason, and I favor CL over C/Go any time of the day). But I really see them as optimizing for/targeting the VSCode/Zed crowd, instead of the vim/emacs one, if you know what I mean.
    - 2y ago
alwillis 2y ago
When I setup a new machine, the first two apps I install are bat and eza. Both are “must haves” as far as I’m concerned.

dietr1ch 2y ago

The ecosystem enables focusing on the task at hand. It's great that you don't need to get side-tracked at every single step. There's many high quality libraries.

BoingBoomTschak 2y ago

While mostly true, there's a large problem with lots of these Rust CLI tools (and I use some of them, don't misunderstand me): they often discard the UNIX philosophy in favour of newbie friendliness and glitter. For example, ripgrep shouldn't merge find and grep (actually, I use a personal wrapper around `find ... -exec grep ... {} +` because my only beef with this is that find's syntax to exclude stuff is horrible, https://git.sr.ht/~q3cpma/scripts/tree/master/item/find_grep https://git.sr.ht/~q3cpma/scripts/tree/master/item/find_grep). Or you see something like https://github.com/shssoichiro/oxipng/issues/629 https://github.com/shssoichiro/oxipng/issues/629 because people don't even know how to use xargs... Feels like if someone did a RIIR on ImageMagick, it'd be able to talk with Instagram and Flickr by itself or process RAW files like Darktable. Would probably have some kind of tagging system too.

bbkane 2y ago
I personally appreciate the newbie friendliness and glitter, and even the "make the common case easier at the expense of composability" tradoff, though I think tlmost of these tools are still relatively composable.
burntsushi 2y ago
I used a similar wrapper for years before I wrote ripgrep. But now all of those wrappers are gone because ripgrep covers all of their use cases (and then some). I'm not a newb and I don't really care about glitter. So I don't know where you're getting your condescension from personally. GNU grep discards the Unix philosophy in all sorts of places too. Like, why does it even bother with a -r flag in the first place? Did people back then not know how to use xargs either? I mean, POSIX knew not to include it[1], so what gives? What's actually happening here is that what matters is the user experience, and the Unix philosophy is a means, not an end, to improve the user experience. It's a heuristic. A rule of thumb to enable composition. But it doesn't replace good judgment. Sometimes you want a little more Unix and sometimes you want a little less. Besides, you can drop ripgrep into a shell pipeline just like you would grep. All that Unix-y goodness is still there. [1]: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/grep.html https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/g...
- BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
  > GNU grep discards the Unix philosophy in all sorts of places too. Who ever claimed that GNU was a proponent of the UNIX philosophy? Certainly not me. > What's actually happening here is that what matters is the user experience, and the Unix philosophy is a means, not an end, to improve the user experience Yes and no. The expression "user experience" implies that all users are the same and benefit from the same philosophy of software interface design. > Besides, you can drop ripgrep into a shell pipeline just like you would grep. All that Unix-y goodness is still there. The "Unix-y goodness" isn't only defined by what it can do, but also what it can't do. I don't want to turn this into a suckless rant, so I won't. Also, not having a mode giving it POSIX grep compatibility really flies in the face of that claim: I want my scripts to work on BSD, MacOS and even Solaris/AIX without having to install stuff. ------ I know I may sound very smug but believe me when I say that I really like some of these utils and the care put into them (and I know you're the author of ripgrep) and that I'm no UNIX OpenBSD user (Plan 9 exists for a reason, and I favor CL over C/Go any time of the day). But I really see them as optimizing for/targeting the VSCode/Zed crowd, instead of the vim/emacs one, if you know what I mean.
  - 2y ago

alwillis 2y ago

When I setup a new machine, the first two apps I install are bat and eza. Both are “must haves” as far as I’m concerned.