4 ms·

These observations are interpretations of behavior viewed through human eyes. (What’s the concept of a “hat” to an orca?) Perhaps we interpret their behavior t

These observations are interpretations of behavior viewed through human eyes. (What’s the concept of a “hat” to an orca?) Perhaps we interpret their behavior this way because it is our behavior.

cjbgkagh 2y ago
Since it’s a trend it comes and goes, and the behavior spreads in a manner similar to fashion trends. Google pics for it, can you think of any other reason for an orca to wear a salmon on their head. Song birds also have similar fashions in what they choose to sing and that spreads much faster than evolution can explain.
paulgerhardt 2y ago
“Faction” and “fashion” are etymological doublets. We wear trends as much to establish which tribe we are apart of as to impress potential mates. The trend of Orcas wearing hats feels very much the same: https://archive.is/2024.12.15-213212/https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/orcas-puget-sound-salmon-hats-killer-whales https://archive.is/2024.12.15-213212/https://www.nationalgeo...
PaulHoule 2y ago
As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. You might very well misinterpret an animal's experience or motives but it is not just mistaken "anthropomorphism" but could just be the same kind of misunderstanding you might have about another person's experience or motives. From time to time I see a paper proving that horses or dogs could do something that people who work with horses or dogs always believed they could do or that some bird or mammal has a "theory of mind" -- I believe all birds and mammals have a pretty good "theory of mind", it's just hard to do an experiment to prove it. We've had a cardinal that has been coming to our window for a few years that we can't agree on naming "bad bird" or "noisy bird" that sets up a nest a few yards from a bird feeder and spends all day fighting it's own reflection in the glass. My interpretation, which could be wrong, is that it believes it is a very successful bird that has found an excellent nesting spot and finds meaning in its life by fighting off "competition" for its nest -- certainly it does not need to spend a lot of energy foraging and has the time and energy to peck at the window all day.
- platz 2y ago
  How do you know the bird just isn't entertaining itself with its own reflection.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    I don't, but your story could be accused of being anthropomorphic as much as my own. If it did have to work harder to forage though, it would have less time and energy to entertain itself. A case where I know my own psychology has to do with it is the red winged blackbird which is a highly territorial bird which is always calling attention to nests that I'd otherwise ignore by buzz-bombing me and that I see high up in the air flapping frantically to nip at the tail feathers and harass huge hawks that are flapping languidly riding thermals. I see these birds sitting on top of "POSTED: NO TRESPASSING" signs all the time because these are convenient perches, although they have no idea that the sign fits their mindset really well. One of my photography goals in the next few weeks is to get some of those pictures though I don't have a particularly long lens so I'll have the problem that they'll probably try to buzz bomb me instead of sitting still to get their picture taken.
  - 3np 2y ago
    The same way you don't know if other humans are even conscious. Empathy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds
- MisterTea 2y ago
  > As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. Growing up with cats and dogs all my life I 100% agree with this. That has caused me to look at animals as individuals I can't communicate with instead of lower life forms that are brainless sacks of meat. They certainty are capable of thought and I am also convinced they share the same basic emotional states but humans have much more nuance and layers over them.
  - 2y ago

cjbgkagh 2y ago

Since it’s a trend it comes and goes, and the behavior spreads in a manner similar to fashion trends. Google pics for it, can you think of any other reason for an orca to wear a salmon on their head. Song birds also have similar fashions in what they choose to sing and that spreads much faster than evolution can explain.

paulgerhardt 2y ago

“Faction” and “fashion” are etymological doublets. We wear trends as much to establish which tribe we are apart of as to impress potential mates. The trend of Orcas wearing hats feels very much the same: https://archive.is/2024.12.15-213212/https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/orcas-puget-sound-salmon-hats-killer-whales https://archive.is/2024.12.15-213212/https://www.nationalgeo...

PaulHoule 2y ago

As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. You might very well misinterpret an animal's experience or motives but it is not just mistaken "anthropomorphism" but could just be the same kind of misunderstanding you might have about another person's experience or motives. From time to time I see a paper proving that horses or dogs could do something that people who work with horses or dogs always believed they could do or that some bird or mammal has a "theory of mind" -- I believe all birds and mammals have a pretty good "theory of mind", it's just hard to do an experiment to prove it. We've had a cardinal that has been coming to our window for a few years that we can't agree on naming "bad bird" or "noisy bird" that sets up a nest a few yards from a bird feeder and spends all day fighting it's own reflection in the glass. My interpretation, which could be wrong, is that it believes it is a very successful bird that has found an excellent nesting spot and finds meaning in its life by fighting off "competition" for its nest -- certainly it does not need to spend a lot of energy foraging and has the time and energy to peck at the window all day.

platz 2y ago
How do you know the bird just isn't entertaining itself with its own reflection.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  I don't, but your story could be accused of being anthropomorphic as much as my own. If it did have to work harder to forage though, it would have less time and energy to entertain itself. A case where I know my own psychology has to do with it is the red winged blackbird which is a highly territorial bird which is always calling attention to nests that I'd otherwise ignore by buzz-bombing me and that I see high up in the air flapping frantically to nip at the tail feathers and harass huge hawks that are flapping languidly riding thermals. I see these birds sitting on top of "POSTED: NO TRESPASSING" signs all the time because these are convenient perches, although they have no idea that the sign fits their mindset really well. One of my photography goals in the next few weeks is to get some of those pictures though I don't have a particularly long lens so I'll have the problem that they'll probably try to buzz bomb me instead of sitting still to get their picture taken.
- 3np 2y ago
  The same way you don't know if other humans are even conscious. Empathy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds
MisterTea 2y ago
> As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. Growing up with cats and dogs all my life I 100% agree with this. That has caused me to look at animals as individuals I can't communicate with instead of lower life forms that are brainless sacks of meat. They certainty are capable of thought and I am also convinced they share the same basic emotional states but humans have much more nuance and layers over them.
- 2y ago