4 ms·

>> I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to everyone else. The older I get, the

>> I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to everyone else. The older I get, the more I'm convinced that people do this less to actually feel superior to others and more as a desperate act of establishing an identity, ANY identity, to simply feel seen and validated in spite of just being yet another person on the planet. This uniquely-human trait seems to run counter to the natural order, where spotted leopards, panthers, elephants, myriad birds all just exist and go about their lives, despite their objective, innate individualities. We are curious creatures lol

cjbgkagh 2y ago
Plenty of animals go out of their way to be seen. If it’s a pretty bird it’s most likely a male bird. Animals at play do appear to show off to each other. Orcas wear salmons as hats as if it was a fast fashion trend. I don’t think humans are unique in this regard at all.
- woodson 2y ago
  These observations are interpretations of behavior viewed through human eyes. (What’s the concept of a “hat” to an orca?) Perhaps we interpret their behavior this way because it is our behavior.
  - cjbgkagh 2y ago
    Since it’s a trend it comes and goes, and the behavior spreads in a manner similar to fashion trends. Google pics for it, can you think of any other reason for an orca to wear a salmon on their head. Song birds also have similar fashions in what they choose to sing and that spreads much faster than evolution can explain.
  - paulgerhardt 2y ago
    “Faction” and “fashion” are etymological doublets. We wear trends as much to establish which tribe we are apart of as to impress potential mates. The trend of Orcas wearing hats feels very much the same: https://archive.is/2024.12.15-213212/https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/orcas-puget-sound-salmon-hats-killer-whales https://archive.is/2024.12.15-213212/https://www.nationalgeo...
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. You might very well misinterpret an animal's experience or motives but it is not just mistaken "anthropomorphism" but could just be the same kind of misunderstanding you might have about another person's experience or motives. From time to time I see a paper proving that horses or dogs could do something that people who work with horses or dogs always believed they could do or that some bird or mammal has a "theory of mind" -- I believe all birds and mammals have a pretty good "theory of mind", it's just hard to do an experiment to prove it. We've had a cardinal that has been coming to our window for a few years that we can't agree on naming "bad bird" or "noisy bird" that sets up a nest a few yards from a bird feeder and spends all day fighting it's own reflection in the glass. My interpretation, which could be wrong, is that it believes it is a very successful bird that has found an excellent nesting spot and finds meaning in its life by fighting off "competition" for its nest -- certainly it does not need to spend a lot of energy foraging and has the time and energy to peck at the window all day.
    - platz 2y ago
      How do you know the bird just isn't entertaining itself with its own reflection.
      - PaulHoule 2y ago
        I don't, but your story could be accused of being anthropomorphic as much as my own. If it did have to work harder to forage though, it would have less time and energy to entertain itself. A case where I know my own psychology has to do with it is the red winged blackbird which is a highly territorial bird which is always calling attention to nests that I'd otherwise ignore by buzz-bombing me and that I see high up in the air flapping frantically to nip at the tail feathers and harass huge hawks that are flapping languidly riding thermals. I see these birds sitting on top of "POSTED: NO TRESPASSING" signs all the time because these are convenient perches, although they have no idea that the sign fits their mindset really well. One of my photography goals in the next few weeks is to get some of those pictures though I don't have a particularly long lens so I'll have the problem that they'll probably try to buzz bomb me instead of sitting still to get their picture taken.
bumby 2y ago
I think it’s latent status signaling. Humans are hierarchical primates and we search for status in our social groups. To that end, it’s not much different than other social creatures that seek social status in their tribe/pride/pack/pod.
dkarl 2y ago
Being "seen and validated" translates to "feeling superior" when people want to be seen and validated on a scale that very few other people are, and I think many people naively want this.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Few would like to feel inferior in every dimension to other people in their group - because that effectively means they're useless to the group, beyond being a warm body to throw at problems requiring numbers; it means they're replaceable and will be replaced by someone better. It feels to me that the ideas of social status, "feeling seen", finding connection, even finding meaning, all intersect in wanting to be unique along some dimension that at least part of your group values.
Lerc 2y ago
>The older I get, the more I'm convinced that people do this less to actually feel superior to others and more as a desperate act of establishing an identity, ANY identity, to simply feel seen and validated in spite of just being yet another person on the planet. I think this is broadly correct. I have had a sense for a while now that there are quite a few people express extreme versions of their opinions substituting amplitude for fidelity. A strongly held opinion isn't heard as much as a weakly held opinion forcefully expressed. Part of this is down to mass communication and it occurs for all things. There are good apps for mobile phones that never get seen because the focus goes to the top few percent. The same is probably true for games on Steam. Most peoples' blogs will be read by fewer people than the number of blogs they read themselves for the simple reason that some blogs get millions of readers. I can see the obvious frustration that must be felt when someone has an idea to share that they feel isn't being expressed. When it comes to emotional expression, small communities are required if you want to have a group that reciprocates attention. Most people don't want to be heard by everyone, they just want to be heard. What we have is an environment where a few people are heard by everyone and lots of people are unheard. I think sites like HN, and the smaller subreddit communities along with discords (I miss IRC, It's still there, but the people aren't) work against that flow. There's an element of social 'groupthink' pressure if communities of similar opinions cluster, more often against ideas than for, but I think that on these platforms it also meets a degree of resistance that helps balance things. HN has Rust/AI/Bitcoin where there are always a few people who will express distain for the subject. Each of these seem weird if you actually consider the criticisms as being in good faith. Why should people be annoyed about liking another programming language, or want to write things in it, or talk about it? Why are there people who are certain AI is doomed to failure that are so concerned about the money of investors? Especially when many of the people who express such distain for AI generally do not look terribly kindly towards investors anyway. It's like they don't like rich people while simultaneously concerned that the rich might lose all their money. Why are those who decry Bitcoin as a Ponzi scheme so angry about the fact that other people, who they disagree with and denigrate, are doomed to lose their money? Why are they so concerned for the finances for people they don't like? I think the motivation behind all of them is they want their dissenting position to be heard. When these things are talked about people can see some degree of popularity for an opinion that they don't hold. It seems it isn't enough to think "I don't think that will work, but good luck to them."
bonoboTP 2y ago
Most things people do, and the stories they weave around their lives are about finding ways that allow them to think of themselves as being a certain kind of person. More than money, more than others' opinions even.
bsoles 2y ago
I am getting old and I agree.

cjbgkagh 2y ago

Plenty of animals go out of their way to be seen. If it’s a pretty bird it’s most likely a male bird. Animals at play do appear to show off to each other. Orcas wear salmons as hats as if it was a fast fashion trend. I don’t think humans are unique in this regard at all.

woodson 2y ago
These observations are interpretations of behavior viewed through human eyes. (What’s the concept of a “hat” to an orca?) Perhaps we interpret their behavior this way because it is our behavior.
- cjbgkagh 2y ago
  Since it’s a trend it comes and goes, and the behavior spreads in a manner similar to fashion trends. Google pics for it, can you think of any other reason for an orca to wear a salmon on their head. Song birds also have similar fashions in what they choose to sing and that spreads much faster than evolution can explain.
- paulgerhardt 2y ago
  “Faction” and “fashion” are etymological doublets. We wear trends as much to establish which tribe we are apart of as to impress potential mates. The trend of Orcas wearing hats feels very much the same: https://archive.is/2024.12.15-213212/https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/orcas-puget-sound-salmon-hats-killer-whales https://archive.is/2024.12.15-213212/https://www.nationalgeo...
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. You might very well misinterpret an animal's experience or motives but it is not just mistaken "anthropomorphism" but could just be the same kind of misunderstanding you might have about another person's experience or motives. From time to time I see a paper proving that horses or dogs could do something that people who work with horses or dogs always believed they could do or that some bird or mammal has a "theory of mind" -- I believe all birds and mammals have a pretty good "theory of mind", it's just hard to do an experiment to prove it. We've had a cardinal that has been coming to our window for a few years that we can't agree on naming "bad bird" or "noisy bird" that sets up a nest a few yards from a bird feeder and spends all day fighting it's own reflection in the glass. My interpretation, which could be wrong, is that it believes it is a very successful bird that has found an excellent nesting spot and finds meaning in its life by fighting off "competition" for its nest -- certainly it does not need to spend a lot of energy foraging and has the time and energy to peck at the window all day.
  - platz 2y ago
    How do you know the bird just isn't entertaining itself with its own reflection.
    - PaulHoule 2y ago
      I don't, but your story could be accused of being anthropomorphic as much as my own. If it did have to work harder to forage though, it would have less time and energy to entertain itself. A case where I know my own psychology has to do with it is the red winged blackbird which is a highly territorial bird which is always calling attention to nests that I'd otherwise ignore by buzz-bombing me and that I see high up in the air flapping frantically to nip at the tail feathers and harass huge hawks that are flapping languidly riding thermals. I see these birds sitting on top of "POSTED: NO TRESPASSING" signs all the time because these are convenient perches, although they have no idea that the sign fits their mindset really well. One of my photography goals in the next few weeks is to get some of those pictures though I don't have a particularly long lens so I'll have the problem that they'll probably try to buzz bomb me instead of sitting still to get their picture taken.

bumby 2y ago

I think it’s latent status signaling. Humans are hierarchical primates and we search for status in our social groups. To that end, it’s not much different than other social creatures that seek social status in their tribe/pride/pack/pod.

dkarl 2y ago

Being "seen and validated" translates to "feeling superior" when people want to be seen and validated on a scale that very few other people are, and I think many people naively want this.

TeMPOraL 2y ago
Few would like to feel inferior in every dimension to other people in their group - because that effectively means they're useless to the group, beyond being a warm body to throw at problems requiring numbers; it means they're replaceable and will be replaced by someone better. It feels to me that the ideas of social status, "feeling seen", finding connection, even finding meaning, all intersect in wanting to be unique along some dimension that at least part of your group values.

Lerc 2y ago

>The older I get, the more I'm convinced that people do this less to actually feel superior to others and more as a desperate act of establishing an identity, ANY identity, to simply feel seen and validated in spite of just being yet another person on the planet. I think this is broadly correct. I have had a sense for a while now that there are quite a few people express extreme versions of their opinions substituting amplitude for fidelity. A strongly held opinion isn't heard as much as a weakly held opinion forcefully expressed. Part of this is down to mass communication and it occurs for all things. There are good apps for mobile phones that never get seen because the focus goes to the top few percent. The same is probably true for games on Steam. Most peoples' blogs will be read by fewer people than the number of blogs they read themselves for the simple reason that some blogs get millions of readers. I can see the obvious frustration that must be felt when someone has an idea to share that they feel isn't being expressed. When it comes to emotional expression, small communities are required if you want to have a group that reciprocates attention. Most people don't want to be heard by everyone, they just want to be heard. What we have is an environment where a few people are heard by everyone and lots of people are unheard. I think sites like HN, and the smaller subreddit communities along with discords (I miss IRC, It's still there, but the people aren't) work against that flow. There's an element of social 'groupthink' pressure if communities of similar opinions cluster, more often against ideas than for, but I think that on these platforms it also meets a degree of resistance that helps balance things. HN has Rust/AI/Bitcoin where there are always a few people who will express distain for the subject. Each of these seem weird if you actually consider the criticisms as being in good faith. Why should people be annoyed about liking another programming language, or want to write things in it, or talk about it? Why are there people who are certain AI is doomed to failure that are so concerned about the money of investors? Especially when many of the people who express such distain for AI generally do not look terribly kindly towards investors anyway. It's like they don't like rich people while simultaneously concerned that the rich might lose all their money. Why are those who decry Bitcoin as a Ponzi scheme so angry about the fact that other people, who they disagree with and denigrate, are doomed to lose their money? Why are they so concerned for the finances for people they don't like? I think the motivation behind all of them is they want their dissenting position to be heard. When these things are talked about people can see some degree of popularity for an opinion that they don't hold. It seems it isn't enough to think "I don't think that will work, but good luck to them."

bonoboTP 2y ago

Most things people do, and the stories they weave around their lives are about finding ways that allow them to think of themselves as being a certain kind of person. More than money, more than others' opinions even.

bsoles 2y ago

I am getting old and I agree.