4 ms·

What counts as real linux? Is it that it runs a linux kernel, or runs a linux-libre kernel, or has a desktop linux user space as opposed to the android user spa

What counts as real linux? Is it that it runs a linux kernel, or runs a linux-libre kernel, or has a desktop linux user space as opposed to the android user space or a GNU user space, is it because real linux is meant to be unpopular such as desktop linux being unpopular while android is popular?

flykespice 2y ago
People don't call Android a "real linux" because you, as a user, aren't in actual control of the system: you can't root, you cant choose which system apps run on your system nor can you disable them, you can't change the underlying linux kernel. You effectively are locked in by the OEM, who is the one that has higher privilege than the user. A real linux would allow the user to have actual control over their own system.
- vitarnixofntrnt 2y ago
  [dead]
- AshamedCaptain 2y ago
  Termux does absolutely nothing to improve any of this. I guess "real Linux"'s most arbitrary but concrete definition applicable for TFA is "glibc". I am very much against this trend by major vendors to push Linux but just as a "VM" or similarly contained crap. MS is doing it (WSL), Google is doing it (pKVM Terminal), etc.
  - flykespice 2y ago
    > I am very much against this trend by major vendors to push Linux but just as a "VM" or similarly contained crap. MS is doing it (WSL), Google is doing it (pKVM Terminal), etc. I guess they are reasonable if you want to use a unix-like terminal environment but don't want go your way to flash your hard drive to install an entire new OS. I myself use linux under WSL because my SSD capacity is very small already and I can't afford reducing it futher partitioning for another OS.
    - AshamedCaptain 2y ago
      For the record, "partitioning it" is exactly what you did if you used WSL2.
- SapporoChris 2y ago
  "You effectively are locked in by the OEM, who is the one that has higher privilege than the user." Anyone that has ever rooted their phone and installed a different OS would strongly disagree with you. https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/ https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/
- cykros 2y ago
  Are people that bristled by RMS that they're this obstinate about refusing to call it GNU/Linux? Seems to be a No Real Linux fallacy...
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    I don't follow. Android isn't GNU/Linux. This makes it tempting to say GNU/Linux is what we want, except that ChromeOS is GNU/Linux (it's a Gentoo derivative) and Alpine isn't (it uses musl+busybox) so "user controlled Linux" really is probably the best term.
k_bx 2y ago
One where you can write a bash script which changes network configuration and launches multiple programs installed from the app store
- hulitu 2y ago
  > One where you can write a bash script which changes network configuration and launches multiple programs installed from the app store ROTFL. https://unixwizardry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/UNIX-live-free-or-die.png https://unixwizardry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/UNIX-liv...
perching_aix 2y ago
when you try to install something and it tells you that dpkg is locked
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
pjmlp 2y ago
A GNU/Linux distribution, in Android the use of the Linux kernel is an implementation detail. Besides Java and Kotlin userspace, you are only allowed to use these APIs on the NDK, notice none of them are Linux, rather C and C++ standard libraries, Khronos APIs and Android specific ones. https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis

flykespice 2y ago

People don't call Android a "real linux" because you, as a user, aren't in actual control of the system: you can't root, you cant choose which system apps run on your system nor can you disable them, you can't change the underlying linux kernel. You effectively are locked in by the OEM, who is the one that has higher privilege than the user. A real linux would allow the user to have actual control over their own system.

vitarnixofntrnt 2y ago
[dead]
AshamedCaptain 2y ago
Termux does absolutely nothing to improve any of this. I guess "real Linux"'s most arbitrary but concrete definition applicable for TFA is "glibc". I am very much against this trend by major vendors to push Linux but just as a "VM" or similarly contained crap. MS is doing it (WSL), Google is doing it (pKVM Terminal), etc.
- flykespice 2y ago
  > I am very much against this trend by major vendors to push Linux but just as a "VM" or similarly contained crap. MS is doing it (WSL), Google is doing it (pKVM Terminal), etc. I guess they are reasonable if you want to use a unix-like terminal environment but don't want go your way to flash your hard drive to install an entire new OS. I myself use linux under WSL because my SSD capacity is very small already and I can't afford reducing it futher partitioning for another OS.
  - AshamedCaptain 2y ago
    For the record, "partitioning it" is exactly what you did if you used WSL2.
SapporoChris 2y ago
"You effectively are locked in by the OEM, who is the one that has higher privilege than the user." Anyone that has ever rooted their phone and installed a different OS would strongly disagree with you. https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/ https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/
cykros 2y ago
Are people that bristled by RMS that they're this obstinate about refusing to call it GNU/Linux? Seems to be a No Real Linux fallacy...
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  I don't follow. Android isn't GNU/Linux. This makes it tempting to say GNU/Linux is what we want, except that ChromeOS is GNU/Linux (it's a Gentoo derivative) and Alpine isn't (it uses musl+busybox) so "user controlled Linux" really is probably the best term.

k_bx 2y ago

One where you can write a bash script which changes network configuration and launches multiple programs installed from the app store

hulitu 2y ago
> One where you can write a bash script which changes network configuration and launches multiple programs installed from the app store ROTFL. https://unixwizardry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/UNIX-live-free-or-die.png https://unixwizardry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/UNIX-liv...

perching_aix 2y ago

when you try to install something and it tells you that dpkg is locked

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

pjmlp 2y ago

A GNU/Linux distribution, in Android the use of the Linux kernel is an implementation detail. Besides Java and Kotlin userspace, you are only allowed to use these APIs on the NDK, notice none of them are Linux, rather C and C++ standard libraries, Khronos APIs and Android specific ones. https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis