6 ms·

What was wrong with Harris?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
AlexandrB 2y ago
Extremist positions on trans issues. To quote Sam Harris: "Congratulations, Democrats. You have found the most annoying thing in the fucking galaxy and hung it around your necks."[1] [1] https://samharris.substack.com/p/the-reckoning https://samharris.substack.com/p/the-reckoning
- Trasmatta 2y ago
  Harris said almost nothing about trans issues during the election. You're attempting to rewrite history if you're claiming it was somehow a core tenant of her campaign. That was entirely propaganda by the opposing party.
  - blindriver 2y ago
    Are voters only supposed to limit their votes about things candidates say during the election? If so does that mean voting against Trump for Jan 6 insurrection was wrong? Or can voters vote against Harris because of policies she has endorsed before the election?
    - skyyler 2y ago
      >If so does that mean voting against Trump for Jan 6 insurrection was wrong? Well, no, because he campaigned on that. Including pardons for people that participated.
      - loeg 2y ago
        It is reasonable for voters to consider politicians' behavior before the most recent election cycle and ridiculous to say voters should have ignored Harris' earlier statements. (And I say that as someone who voted for Harris.)
        skyyler 2y ago
        Oh, no, I definitely agree with you on that, was just pointing out that specific premise is factually incorrect.
  - AlexandrB 2y ago
    In various outlets she said she would change little from Biden's administration. And of course there's the classic: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-gender-surgeries-jail/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-gender-surgeries-ja... Are you suggesting that Harris would have reeled in some of the most outrageous policies on this issue? She said no such thing so the reasonable assumption anyone would make is that it would be business as usual. Not talking about it is the problem.
    - skyyler 2y ago
      What exactly is the issue with prisoners getting medical care?
  - jl6 2y ago
    She was loudly accused of having extreme positions on a hot button issue. Saying nothing was tantamount to admitting the accusation was true. That's how the court of public opinion works.
    - _t9ow 2y ago
      > She was loudly accused of having extreme positions on a hot button issue. She was accused of many things in bad faith, e.g. not being Black, being a Marxist, being a communist, and more. Spending time and effort to address every single one of these would have been tantamount to allowing her opponent to dictate her campaign.
      - jl6 2y ago
        None of those things had attack ads with this kind of impact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_is_for_they/them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_is_for_they/them It was and is an important issue to a lot of voters and by ignoring it she let her opponent explain her position for her.
- pjc50 2y ago
  I don't think that leaving trans people alone is extremist.
  - gadders 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
      Exactly how have trans people affected your life, directly?
      - gadders 2y ago
        I have worked with (born male) non-binary people who alternate between wearing male and female clothes. I have seen them enter the female toilets, and win awards for women. But tbh, this is a daft question. It's like saying you can't have a policy position on gun control unless someone has shot at you.
        hobs 2y ago
        Dang you saw a trans person? How many trans people are the equivalent of a loaded weapon? Because that's the completely bonkers question that somehow is being equivocated here - that someone wearing different clothes or identifying differently is a potential harm just waiting to get you... how exactly? Did you deserve the woman only award? Would you assume that identity to get that award? Are you saying that people dishonestly assume trans identities because its an easy way to assume power in our society? Are you a serious person?
        gadders 2y ago
        [flagged]
        bobalob 2y ago
        This article is a good read, it explains why it's problematic to bestow upon men awards that were intended for women: https://www.filia.org.uk/latest-news/2018/9/21/does-the-apparel-oft-proclaim-the-man https://www.filia.org.uk/latest-news/2018/9/21/does-the-appa...
- LastTrain 2y ago
  And that impacts you on a daily basis exactly how? Think long and hard about why that would even begin to bother you. Not to mention is was barely a passing side issue for Harris
  - djohnston 2y ago
    Are you implying that people should only vote on things which they encounter in their day-to-day lived experience? That's silly and not how the world works. Why are you mad about Gaza? You aren't getting JDAMs dropped on your roof, are you? How does Gaza impact you on a daily basis? Harris failed to distance herself from positions that are deeply unpopular with the majority of Americans (e.g. sex changes for illegal immigrants). That's all there is to it. If you want to step away from this particular issue, she failed to distance herself from the Biden administration's policies. There's a pretty famous clip of her failing to answer a question to that point, definitely on the youtubes.
    - LastTrain 2y ago
      I tend to care about policies that don't impact me personally when they harm other people. I'm a natural born citizen, I'm not going to get deported with out process, but I still care about that. I'm not in grade school, so I'm not going to be a victim of a school shooting, but I still care about that. If it is a policy that doesn't impact me personally, but benefits someone else, yeah I tend to not give a shit. Why would I be against a position that has no impact on me whatsoever when it only meant to help someone else as in the case with civil rights?
      - djohnston 2y ago
        > If it is a policy that doesn't impact me personally, but benefits someone else, yeah I tend to not give a shit. You're excluding a key point - the policy often benefits one party at the cost of another. You mentioned immigration and that's a great example of this sort of pathological empathy that has infected the left. There's a cheap and fleeting sense of virtue attained when you champion illegal immigration and decry deportations. You post photos of mothers and their children crying at the border because the human trafficking organisations are having a hard time getting them across nowadays. But it's important to remember the negative pressure illegal immigrants place on wages and why there's a gross cabal of large corporations, lobbies, and affiliated NGOs, who virtue signal immigration as a means to lower their labor costs. It's important to remember the entire pipeline of illegal immigrants is owned and operated by extremely violent cartels - humans are now their most valuable product. Your desperate craving for that high of in-group acceptance is propping this up. It's not that you're empathetic - you just don't care about the negatively impacted party. Nothing new under the sun.
righthand 2y ago
She didn’t have time to campaign as Biden lied about stepping down after 4 years.
linuxftw 2y ago
[flagged]
- Trasmatta 2y ago
  How can you honestly believe this? What evidence do you have of this?
  - linuxftw 2y ago
    Did you ever hear her speak? Have you never talked to a low IQ person?
  - mrkstu 2y ago
    Obvious hyperbole, but any unedited interviews with her descended into word salad hell, on just about any subject.
Starlevel004 2y ago
Non-policy reasons: Too attached to Biden, didn't win via a primary but because Biden stood down far too late. (Not that she would've won a primary).
mandmandam 2y ago
All Harris had to do to win was promise to stop sending arms to Israel. Many, many polls showed this very clearly. 77% of Democrat voters wanted an arms embargo, and over 30% of 2020 Biden voters in key battleground states said that this issue was serious enough to affect their vote. > A Harris organizer who worked on youth turnout said that senior campaign officials gave them an order: When they sent out mass volunteer or fundraising emails and people replied by asking about Gaza, they were told to mark it as “no response.” The result? They seldom ended up engaging with voters on that issue. - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/uncommitted-leaders-stand-2024-strategy-trump-floats-gaza-takeover-rcna190782 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/uncommitted-le... So yeah, if there was one thing wrong with Harris, that would be it. That one issue would have changed the result, and as far as single issues go, I call genocide a pretty big one. It's kinda the biggest. Far from the only issue though - campaigning with Dick Cheney was pretty fucking stupid, for one thing. Then there was promising to be harsher on immigration than Trump. Promising the world's "most lethal" military (we already are?) while trying to gaslight broke Americans into believing the economy was great. In general, trying to pick up right wing votes was a heinous 'strategy'.
- ta1243 2y ago
  Well done for all the anti-israel-arming people. I hope they're happy with the outcome they wanted.
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    To be fair, they're okay with what they got so long as they're not the ones getting it. Hamas is a hardline theocratic political party based on a very conservative interpretation of a religion. That means they're anti-free speech/press/religion/assembly, anti-LGBTQ rights, anti-free enterprise, anti-secular jurisprudence, and anti-representative government. Neither of the Palestinian Territories have had meaningful elections in over a decade. They're utterly unwilling to discuss any sort of deviation from their foreign policy agenda in good faith. And yet, that's who many people on the political left-of-center see as the "freedom fighters" of the Israel-Hamas conflict. Is Israel blameless? Absolutely not. They've committed numerous war crimes and atrocities since October 7th. On the other hand, they have shown with Jordan and Egypt that if their neighbors agree to leave them alone, they'll do the same in turn. Fatah isn't that much better. Honestly it's a different flavor of the same kind of authoritarianism that many on the right in the US dream of. And with Trump, they're much closer to implementing this, albeit with a different religion. If the idea behind the 2024 election in the US was to prevent more people from coming under authoritarian rule on a global scale, the left in the US failed miserably. And I say that as someone on the political left.
lesuorac 2y ago
She lost her own primary should be enough. Given how much disadvantage being an incumbent was the last cycle across the globe I think she actually would've won in say 2016 but an incumbent candidate was not the one to run in 2024.
kcplate 2y ago
She had only one really important job to do as vice president—become president if the president was incapable of doing the job. She, like many administration (and media), put her political party’s optics over the good of the country and tried to hide Joe Biden’s mental decline from the population. She was literally derelict in her most important duty as vice president. How could she be trusted as president? I’m an independent and I could not and would not vote for her for this reason. I could not and would not vote for Trump either, so I simply didn’t vote.
- righthand 2y ago
  If you don’t vote then your opinion is meaningless. Voting is applying your opinion. Your view of Biden’s mental state is lies spewed by all the media. How many videos of Biden speaking have you actually watched? He is actually 10x better speaker than Trump or George W Bush ever was. It’s ridiculous how people take those lies verbatim.
  - kcplate 2y ago
    My view of Biden’s mental state is colored by my own experience with my father’s dementia that was happening alongside Biden’s administration. What I saw in Biden, mirrored my father’s decline minus about 18 months. We took the car keys away from my dad when he was measurably more mentally capable than Biden appeared to be in 2022. I worried every single day between when I recognized the signs and when he left office about the dangers of having someone in his state as the presumed most powerful person in the world. What I do know is that whoever was running the country for the last 3 years, it wasn't someone elected to do it. Not voting is a vote. It’s applying my opinion that there was not a reasonable candidate worthy of my vote.
    - righthand 2y ago
      This is the exact same thing my father said before Biden stepped down, only instead it was my grandmother. Suddenly everyone’s an expert in mental decline and that was worrying for voters with Biden to stutter infrequently but with logical talking points. However it was acceptable for Trump to stand there and literally drool out of his mouth with nonsensical hate. That is a reason to not vote is unfounded medical hysteria and lies. Something you have no proof for other than your own bias and stigma on mental health as you have stated. Joe Biden was running the country, he signed bills, gave speeches, and helped restore our economy. Because you chose to only read headlines and drink the “Joe is practically dead” kool-aid. That is how you led yourself to the lies and not voting. Not voting is not a vote in a national election system. It is a vote for your own smugness. It is opting out of voting because you’re looking for a reason to stay neutral instead of a reason apply your opinion in a meaningful way. That is what makes your opinion today meaningless because you voted for meaninglessness.
TacticalCoder 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Extremist positions on trans issues. To quote Sam Harris: "Congratulations, Democrats. You have found the most annoying thing in the fucking galaxy and hung it around your necks."[1] [1] https://samharris.substack.com/p/the-reckoning https://samharris.substack.com/p/the-reckoning

Trasmatta 2y ago
Harris said almost nothing about trans issues during the election. You're attempting to rewrite history if you're claiming it was somehow a core tenant of her campaign. That was entirely propaganda by the opposing party.
- blindriver 2y ago
  Are voters only supposed to limit their votes about things candidates say during the election? If so does that mean voting against Trump for Jan 6 insurrection was wrong? Or can voters vote against Harris because of policies she has endorsed before the election?
  - skyyler 2y ago
    >If so does that mean voting against Trump for Jan 6 insurrection was wrong? Well, no, because he campaigned on that. Including pardons for people that participated.
    - loeg 2y ago
      It is reasonable for voters to consider politicians' behavior before the most recent election cycle and ridiculous to say voters should have ignored Harris' earlier statements. (And I say that as someone who voted for Harris.)
      - skyyler 2y ago
        Oh, no, I definitely agree with you on that, was just pointing out that specific premise is factually incorrect.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  In various outlets she said she would change little from Biden's administration. And of course there's the classic: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-gender-surgeries-jail/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-gender-surgeries-ja... Are you suggesting that Harris would have reeled in some of the most outrageous policies on this issue? She said no such thing so the reasonable assumption anyone would make is that it would be business as usual. Not talking about it is the problem.
  - skyyler 2y ago
    What exactly is the issue with prisoners getting medical care?
- jl6 2y ago
  She was loudly accused of having extreme positions on a hot button issue. Saying nothing was tantamount to admitting the accusation was true. That's how the court of public opinion works.
  - _t9ow 2y ago
    > She was loudly accused of having extreme positions on a hot button issue. She was accused of many things in bad faith, e.g. not being Black, being a Marxist, being a communist, and more. Spending time and effort to address every single one of these would have been tantamount to allowing her opponent to dictate her campaign.
    - jl6 2y ago
      None of those things had attack ads with this kind of impact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_is_for_they/them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_is_for_they/them It was and is an important issue to a lot of voters and by ignoring it she let her opponent explain her position for her.
pjc50 2y ago
I don't think that leaving trans people alone is extremist.
- gadders 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
    Exactly how have trans people affected your life, directly?
    - gadders 2y ago
      I have worked with (born male) non-binary people who alternate between wearing male and female clothes. I have seen them enter the female toilets, and win awards for women. But tbh, this is a daft question. It's like saying you can't have a policy position on gun control unless someone has shot at you.
      - hobs 2y ago
        Dang you saw a trans person? How many trans people are the equivalent of a loaded weapon? Because that's the completely bonkers question that somehow is being equivocated here - that someone wearing different clothes or identifying differently is a potential harm just waiting to get you... how exactly? Did you deserve the woman only award? Would you assume that identity to get that award? Are you saying that people dishonestly assume trans identities because its an easy way to assume power in our society? Are you a serious person?
        gadders 2y ago
        [flagged]
        bobalob 2y ago
        This article is a good read, it explains why it's problematic to bestow upon men awards that were intended for women: https://www.filia.org.uk/latest-news/2018/9/21/does-the-apparel-oft-proclaim-the-man https://www.filia.org.uk/latest-news/2018/9/21/does-the-appa...
LastTrain 2y ago
And that impacts you on a daily basis exactly how? Think long and hard about why that would even begin to bother you. Not to mention is was barely a passing side issue for Harris
- djohnston 2y ago
  Are you implying that people should only vote on things which they encounter in their day-to-day lived experience? That's silly and not how the world works. Why are you mad about Gaza? You aren't getting JDAMs dropped on your roof, are you? How does Gaza impact you on a daily basis? Harris failed to distance herself from positions that are deeply unpopular with the majority of Americans (e.g. sex changes for illegal immigrants). That's all there is to it. If you want to step away from this particular issue, she failed to distance herself from the Biden administration's policies. There's a pretty famous clip of her failing to answer a question to that point, definitely on the youtubes.
  - LastTrain 2y ago
    I tend to care about policies that don't impact me personally when they harm other people. I'm a natural born citizen, I'm not going to get deported with out process, but I still care about that. I'm not in grade school, so I'm not going to be a victim of a school shooting, but I still care about that. If it is a policy that doesn't impact me personally, but benefits someone else, yeah I tend to not give a shit. Why would I be against a position that has no impact on me whatsoever when it only meant to help someone else as in the case with civil rights?
    - djohnston 2y ago
      > If it is a policy that doesn't impact me personally, but benefits someone else, yeah I tend to not give a shit. You're excluding a key point - the policy often benefits one party at the cost of another. You mentioned immigration and that's a great example of this sort of pathological empathy that has infected the left. There's a cheap and fleeting sense of virtue attained when you champion illegal immigration and decry deportations. You post photos of mothers and their children crying at the border because the human trafficking organisations are having a hard time getting them across nowadays. But it's important to remember the negative pressure illegal immigrants place on wages and why there's a gross cabal of large corporations, lobbies, and affiliated NGOs, who virtue signal immigration as a means to lower their labor costs. It's important to remember the entire pipeline of illegal immigrants is owned and operated by extremely violent cartels - humans are now their most valuable product. Your desperate craving for that high of in-group acceptance is propping this up. It's not that you're empathetic - you just don't care about the negatively impacted party. Nothing new under the sun.

righthand 2y ago

She didn’t have time to campaign as Biden lied about stepping down after 4 years.

linuxftw 2y ago

[flagged]

Trasmatta 2y ago
How can you honestly believe this? What evidence do you have of this?
- linuxftw 2y ago
  Did you ever hear her speak? Have you never talked to a low IQ person?
- mrkstu 2y ago
  Obvious hyperbole, but any unedited interviews with her descended into word salad hell, on just about any subject.

Starlevel004 2y ago

Non-policy reasons: Too attached to Biden, didn't win via a primary but because Biden stood down far too late. (Not that she would've won a primary).

mandmandam 2y ago

All Harris had to do to win was promise to stop sending arms to Israel. Many, many polls showed this very clearly. 77% of Democrat voters wanted an arms embargo, and over 30% of 2020 Biden voters in key battleground states said that this issue was serious enough to affect their vote. > A Harris organizer who worked on youth turnout said that senior campaign officials gave them an order: When they sent out mass volunteer or fundraising emails and people replied by asking about Gaza, they were told to mark it as “no response.” The result? They seldom ended up engaging with voters on that issue. - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/uncommitted-leaders-stand-2024-strategy-trump-floats-gaza-takeover-rcna190782 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/uncommitted-le... So yeah, if there was one thing wrong with Harris, that would be it. That one issue would have changed the result, and as far as single issues go, I call genocide a pretty big one. It's kinda the biggest. Far from the only issue though - campaigning with Dick Cheney was pretty fucking stupid, for one thing. Then there was promising to be harsher on immigration than Trump. Promising the world's "most lethal" military (we already are?) while trying to gaslight broke Americans into believing the economy was great. In general, trying to pick up right wing votes was a heinous 'strategy'.

ta1243 2y ago
Well done for all the anti-israel-arming people. I hope they're happy with the outcome they wanted.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  To be fair, they're okay with what they got so long as they're not the ones getting it. Hamas is a hardline theocratic political party based on a very conservative interpretation of a religion. That means they're anti-free speech/press/religion/assembly, anti-LGBTQ rights, anti-free enterprise, anti-secular jurisprudence, and anti-representative government. Neither of the Palestinian Territories have had meaningful elections in over a decade. They're utterly unwilling to discuss any sort of deviation from their foreign policy agenda in good faith. And yet, that's who many people on the political left-of-center see as the "freedom fighters" of the Israel-Hamas conflict. Is Israel blameless? Absolutely not. They've committed numerous war crimes and atrocities since October 7th. On the other hand, they have shown with Jordan and Egypt that if their neighbors agree to leave them alone, they'll do the same in turn. Fatah isn't that much better. Honestly it's a different flavor of the same kind of authoritarianism that many on the right in the US dream of. And with Trump, they're much closer to implementing this, albeit with a different religion. If the idea behind the 2024 election in the US was to prevent more people from coming under authoritarian rule on a global scale, the left in the US failed miserably. And I say that as someone on the political left.

lesuorac 2y ago

She lost her own primary should be enough. Given how much disadvantage being an incumbent was the last cycle across the globe I think she actually would've won in say 2016 but an incumbent candidate was not the one to run in 2024.

kcplate 2y ago

She had only one really important job to do as vice president—become president if the president was incapable of doing the job. She, like many administration (and media), put her political party’s optics over the good of the country and tried to hide Joe Biden’s mental decline from the population. She was literally derelict in her most important duty as vice president. How could she be trusted as president? I’m an independent and I could not and would not vote for her for this reason. I could not and would not vote for Trump either, so I simply didn’t vote.

righthand 2y ago
If you don’t vote then your opinion is meaningless. Voting is applying your opinion. Your view of Biden’s mental state is lies spewed by all the media. How many videos of Biden speaking have you actually watched? He is actually 10x better speaker than Trump or George W Bush ever was. It’s ridiculous how people take those lies verbatim.
- kcplate 2y ago
  My view of Biden’s mental state is colored by my own experience with my father’s dementia that was happening alongside Biden’s administration. What I saw in Biden, mirrored my father’s decline minus about 18 months. We took the car keys away from my dad when he was measurably more mentally capable than Biden appeared to be in 2022. I worried every single day between when I recognized the signs and when he left office about the dangers of having someone in his state as the presumed most powerful person in the world. What I do know is that whoever was running the country for the last 3 years, it wasn't someone elected to do it. Not voting is a vote. It’s applying my opinion that there was not a reasonable candidate worthy of my vote.
  - righthand 2y ago
    This is the exact same thing my father said before Biden stepped down, only instead it was my grandmother. Suddenly everyone’s an expert in mental decline and that was worrying for voters with Biden to stutter infrequently but with logical talking points. However it was acceptable for Trump to stand there and literally drool out of his mouth with nonsensical hate. That is a reason to not vote is unfounded medical hysteria and lies. Something you have no proof for other than your own bias and stigma on mental health as you have stated. Joe Biden was running the country, he signed bills, gave speeches, and helped restore our economy. Because you chose to only read headlines and drink the “Joe is practically dead” kool-aid. That is how you led yourself to the lies and not voting. Not voting is not a vote in a national election system. It is a vote for your own smugness. It is opting out of voting because you’re looking for a reason to stay neutral instead of a reason apply your opinion in a meaningful way. That is what makes your opinion today meaningless because you voted for meaninglessness.

TacticalCoder 2y ago

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