4 ms·

I started reading history as a hobby a few years after college when I heard some things from people that just didn’t make sense or didn’t seem true. So I picked

I started reading history as a hobby a few years after college when I heard some things from people that just didn’t make sense or didn’t seem true. So I picked up a booked that was well cited, read it while checking the citations after each chapter. Between the Library of Congress and Google, checking original sources has never been easier. It was a really mind blowing exercise. Much more interesting than fiction. When I do Bible study now I do it the same way, find whatever sources I can to cross reference with other history at the time. Strongly recommend it. What’s funny is that history is the subject I was least interested in all through school.

pplonski86 2y ago
Could you please recommend some history books?
- JadeNB 2y ago
  The book that really got me hooked was The rise and fall of the Third Reich, by William Shirer. He was a journalist in Berlin before WWII, and you can see the journalistic background shine through in his narrative. A lot of what I've read since then has been in trying to trace back the references he gives to how the events of WWII recapitulated older conflicts, which I then went and found references in which to learn about. Barbara Tuchman is a delightful mostly medieval historian, and Mary Beard is a wonderful Roman historian. Both have a decidedly personal voice, which happened to click well with me; your milage may vary. Someone else in the thread mentioned Simon Sebag Montefiore, and I've enjoyed most of what he's written. It feels a little less scholarly than some other popular historical sources, but that's just an informal impression from a tyro. Lots of people enjoy Yuval Harari, but I do not enjoy him at all.
- sethammons 2y ago
  A people's history of the united states is a good one. Most history is written by the generals and leaders. This account is colored by the oft ignored people.
  - Der_Einzige 2y ago
    These days, Howard Zinn, Chomsky, and most other left wing intellectuals of yesteryear have lost their cultural power. It doesn’t help that most of these folks are 1. So sold into the “American intelligence bad” narrative that they look at every left wing crack point and act like nothing bad happened under them. Even Allende, the classic example of a “good Marxist” leader, was a total asshole and likely deserved to be shot. Zinn isn’t going to tell you that or about when the US IC got it right… they also won’t mention that the ultra conservative death squads were still often the lesser of the two evils. Sorry, but Howard Zinn is post modern neo Marxism. Might as well go read Deleuze or Foucault. Also sad to realize that the left in general has been extremely neutered. The plot to “Canadian Bacon” by Micheal Moore is happening IRL and no one even knows that movie exists except random old American leftists.
    - mmooss 2y ago
      > lost their cultural power Should people only read what's popular, what the dominant culture approves of? Are more unpopular ideas more wrong? You apparently dislike Chomsky; would you have liked Chomsky more when those books were more popular? > the “American intelligence bad” narrative You are ignorant of these issues if that is your understanding. Certainty also seems to support that, as does the ranting.
    - TimorousBestie 2y ago
      “Postmodern Neomarxism” basically doesn’t exist outside of a few fringe academics. Recommend you read Derrida’s _Spectres of Marx_, which goes into detail about how dead academic Marxism was even in 1993 (spoiler: it’s even deader now). His hopes for a “New International” never materialized and died with him. Even Žižek’s more recent _Too Late to Awaken_ is a depressing slog of an elegy, and he is the closest thing to a real “Neomarxist” you could ask for. Relatedly, Foucault and Deleuze do not write anything remotely like Zinn. Comparing them is wholly meaningless, they’re playing entirely different games.
      - Der_Einzige 2y ago
        That particular book is of special interest to me as a stirner shill/fanatic. The "Specter of Marx" he's refering to is Max Stirner! Derrida is trying to answer the question of "Why did Stirners book, The Unique and its Property, trigger Marx to write The German Ideology and dedicate over 300 pages to shitting on stirner?". I've cover to cover read that book, and it's garbage dog shit just like Zizek is. The moment that you start trying to wax poetic about whose what ism is when you become post-modern neo marxism. It's academic ivy league eliteist careerism and its disgusting. Fashionable nonsense. Zinn and Zizek are playing the exact same game. One just writes more coherently than the other. If you think Hegel or Marx are worth citing, you're a pomo/fraud. If you think Psychoanalysis/Freud are worth citing, you're a pomo/fraud. Deleuze killed himself. Mark fischer killed himself. Althussar killed his wife. Wilhelm Reich was a loony who after writing his analysis of the sexuality of fascism went nuts about "Orgone" machines. Foucault, Sartre/De Bouvier were pedos and collaborators. Even my favorite half-breed of pluralism mixed with pomo shit, Arendt, was in love with the arch nemesis of "oh they were literally a nazi " pomos - Heidigger! And who can forgot Carl Schmitt? JUST WRITE THESE IDIOTS ALL OFF ALREADY AND LEAVE THEM IN THE DUST BIN OF HISTORY!
- vonunov 2y ago
  Handwriting in America, Thornton
- brightball 2y ago
  IMO it's too broad. You need to have something you want to learn more about and then try to find a couple of different books on the subject to get a clearer picture. My interest grew when I had the realization that you can easily spot "gaps" in history, if you just start asking "Why?" Example: This country invaded that country. Why? History is full of cause and effect. The fastest way to figure out where you're not getting the whole story is if there's not a "Why?" or the reason simply doesn't make sense. I enjoy US history, but I've learned to gravitate towards topics that simply don't get discussed much in the "highlights", with the highlights being the American Revolution and WWII. Just for example, the War of 1812, French and Indian War aren't talked about much but are pretty interesting. Learning about the Cold War by reading Skunkworks was really cool. There's a book called The Code Book that is a great read and covers a lot of "history of encryption" during wartime that I really enjoyed. On the Biblical side of things, I went down a rabbit hole trying to track the migration of the Jewish Tribe of Dan from Cyprus and their influence on Greek/Roman mythology. Just really interesting stuff to me so I even blogged about it. https://www.readnotmisled.org/p/was-herculesjewish-biblical-influences https://www.readnotmisled.org/p/was-herculesjewish-biblical-...
i_love_retros 2y ago
Curious, what events are documented in the bible that correspond to actual historical events? Does it have good historical accuracy for the time it was written? (forgive my ignorance, I have never read the bible) Have you read Jerusalem by Simon Sebag Montefiore? I admit I didn't finish it, but what I did read was very interesting. Although I admittedly didn't fact check it.
- rgrieselhuber 2y ago
  I’d recommend to just start reading it to get a feel for it. It’s not all history, there is poetry, proverbs, lawgiving, etc.
- fpsvogel 2y ago
  The relationship of the Bible to history is complicated. I recommend the “Pete Ruins ____” episodes of The Bible for Normal People podcast, which is fun but also grounded in the academic field of biblical studies. Here’s the first one for Genesis, where the historical aspects are especially complex and interesting: https://thebiblefornormalpeople.com/episode-277-pete-enns-pete-ruins-genesis-part-1 https://thebiblefornormalpeople.com/episode-277-pete-enns-pe...
- derektank 2y ago
  With respect to the New Testament, Josephus' "Antiquities of the Jews" is the most contemporary historical account of the region, written in the late 1st century, and attests to the execution of John the Baptist by Herod Antipas, the rule of Pontius Pilate in Judea, and some other events attested to in the New Testament. Some of these events are themselves corroborated by Roman authors and archaeological evidence, such as coins and the Pilate stone.
- dustincoates 2y ago
  The Bible is a mixture of history, poetry, wisdom literature, and much more. There's a really fascinating study Bible (ESV Archaeology Study Bible) that does a fantastic job of putting everything into its historical, sociopolitical, and geographical context.
- randomNumber7 2y ago
freilanzer 2y ago
Same with geopolitics now, since the USA have basically sided with Russia against Ukraine. I want to have a solid background to be able to interpret current events and tendencies.
- LastTrain 2y ago
  You’ve been siding with Russia since 1776?
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    (We had a kind of falling out when Capitalism felt threatened.)
  - JadeNB 2y ago
    > You’ve been siding with Russia since 1776? Huh? In most senses of "siding with," I don't think that this statement has really been true for this broad a sweep of US history.
    - LastTrain 2y ago
      To say I misread your original comment would be an understatement, my apologies.
      - JadeNB 2y ago
        I am not freilanzer, who made the comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43410830 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43410830 to which you responded, so, if you do think an apology is warranted, then it should probably be to them.
saulpw 2y ago
> What’s funny is that history is the subject I was least interested in all through school. Indeed, history is largely lost on kids. You need to see some real world events play out before you can care about history. I also think, if you're going to teach history to children, it should be taught in reverse chronology. Basically here's what's happening now, and that's due to what happened last year, which is due to what happened last decade, etc. Work your way back to the Greeks and Babylonians. Like James Burke's Connections.
- vik0 2y ago
  >it should be taught in reverse chronology. Basically here's what's happening now, and that's due to what happened last year, which is due to what happened last decade, etc Boy, oh boy, you will hate Karl Popper if you ever decide to read him lol
  - saulpw 2y ago
    I've read some of his work (only a little bit), but I can't figure out what you're referring to. Is it just that we can't properly know what causes what? For the purposes of childhood education that does not matter too much :)
    - vik0 2y ago
      Fair enough

pplonski86 2y ago

Could you please recommend some history books?

JadeNB 2y ago
The book that really got me hooked was The rise and fall of the Third Reich, by William Shirer. He was a journalist in Berlin before WWII, and you can see the journalistic background shine through in his narrative. A lot of what I've read since then has been in trying to trace back the references he gives to how the events of WWII recapitulated older conflicts, which I then went and found references in which to learn about. Barbara Tuchman is a delightful mostly medieval historian, and Mary Beard is a wonderful Roman historian. Both have a decidedly personal voice, which happened to click well with me; your milage may vary. Someone else in the thread mentioned Simon Sebag Montefiore, and I've enjoyed most of what he's written. It feels a little less scholarly than some other popular historical sources, but that's just an informal impression from a tyro. Lots of people enjoy Yuval Harari, but I do not enjoy him at all.
sethammons 2y ago
A people's history of the united states is a good one. Most history is written by the generals and leaders. This account is colored by the oft ignored people.
- Der_Einzige 2y ago
  These days, Howard Zinn, Chomsky, and most other left wing intellectuals of yesteryear have lost their cultural power. It doesn’t help that most of these folks are 1. So sold into the “American intelligence bad” narrative that they look at every left wing crack point and act like nothing bad happened under them. Even Allende, the classic example of a “good Marxist” leader, was a total asshole and likely deserved to be shot. Zinn isn’t going to tell you that or about when the US IC got it right… they also won’t mention that the ultra conservative death squads were still often the lesser of the two evils. Sorry, but Howard Zinn is post modern neo Marxism. Might as well go read Deleuze or Foucault. Also sad to realize that the left in general has been extremely neutered. The plot to “Canadian Bacon” by Micheal Moore is happening IRL and no one even knows that movie exists except random old American leftists.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    > lost their cultural power Should people only read what's popular, what the dominant culture approves of? Are more unpopular ideas more wrong? You apparently dislike Chomsky; would you have liked Chomsky more when those books were more popular? > the “American intelligence bad” narrative You are ignorant of these issues if that is your understanding. Certainty also seems to support that, as does the ranting.
  - TimorousBestie 2y ago
    “Postmodern Neomarxism” basically doesn’t exist outside of a few fringe academics. Recommend you read Derrida’s _Spectres of Marx_, which goes into detail about how dead academic Marxism was even in 1993 (spoiler: it’s even deader now). His hopes for a “New International” never materialized and died with him. Even Žižek’s more recent _Too Late to Awaken_ is a depressing slog of an elegy, and he is the closest thing to a real “Neomarxist” you could ask for. Relatedly, Foucault and Deleuze do not write anything remotely like Zinn. Comparing them is wholly meaningless, they’re playing entirely different games.
    - Der_Einzige 2y ago
      That particular book is of special interest to me as a stirner shill/fanatic. The "Specter of Marx" he's refering to is Max Stirner! Derrida is trying to answer the question of "Why did Stirners book, The Unique and its Property, trigger Marx to write The German Ideology and dedicate over 300 pages to shitting on stirner?". I've cover to cover read that book, and it's garbage dog shit just like Zizek is. The moment that you start trying to wax poetic about whose what ism is when you become post-modern neo marxism. It's academic ivy league eliteist careerism and its disgusting. Fashionable nonsense. Zinn and Zizek are playing the exact same game. One just writes more coherently than the other. If you think Hegel or Marx are worth citing, you're a pomo/fraud. If you think Psychoanalysis/Freud are worth citing, you're a pomo/fraud. Deleuze killed himself. Mark fischer killed himself. Althussar killed his wife. Wilhelm Reich was a loony who after writing his analysis of the sexuality of fascism went nuts about "Orgone" machines. Foucault, Sartre/De Bouvier were pedos and collaborators. Even my favorite half-breed of pluralism mixed with pomo shit, Arendt, was in love with the arch nemesis of "oh they were literally a nazi " pomos - Heidigger! And who can forgot Carl Schmitt? JUST WRITE THESE IDIOTS ALL OFF ALREADY AND LEAVE THEM IN THE DUST BIN OF HISTORY!
vonunov 2y ago
Handwriting in America, Thornton
brightball 2y ago
IMO it's too broad. You need to have something you want to learn more about and then try to find a couple of different books on the subject to get a clearer picture. My interest grew when I had the realization that you can easily spot "gaps" in history, if you just start asking "Why?" Example: This country invaded that country. Why? History is full of cause and effect. The fastest way to figure out where you're not getting the whole story is if there's not a "Why?" or the reason simply doesn't make sense. I enjoy US history, but I've learned to gravitate towards topics that simply don't get discussed much in the "highlights", with the highlights being the American Revolution and WWII. Just for example, the War of 1812, French and Indian War aren't talked about much but are pretty interesting. Learning about the Cold War by reading Skunkworks was really cool. There's a book called The Code Book that is a great read and covers a lot of "history of encryption" during wartime that I really enjoyed. On the Biblical side of things, I went down a rabbit hole trying to track the migration of the Jewish Tribe of Dan from Cyprus and their influence on Greek/Roman mythology. Just really interesting stuff to me so I even blogged about it. https://www.readnotmisled.org/p/was-herculesjewish-biblical-influences https://www.readnotmisled.org/p/was-herculesjewish-biblical-...

i_love_retros 2y ago

Curious, what events are documented in the bible that correspond to actual historical events? Does it have good historical accuracy for the time it was written? (forgive my ignorance, I have never read the bible) Have you read Jerusalem by Simon Sebag Montefiore? I admit I didn't finish it, but what I did read was very interesting. Although I admittedly didn't fact check it.

rgrieselhuber 2y ago
I’d recommend to just start reading it to get a feel for it. It’s not all history, there is poetry, proverbs, lawgiving, etc.
fpsvogel 2y ago
The relationship of the Bible to history is complicated. I recommend the “Pete Ruins ____” episodes of The Bible for Normal People podcast, which is fun but also grounded in the academic field of biblical studies. Here’s the first one for Genesis, where the historical aspects are especially complex and interesting: https://thebiblefornormalpeople.com/episode-277-pete-enns-pete-ruins-genesis-part-1 https://thebiblefornormalpeople.com/episode-277-pete-enns-pe...
derektank 2y ago
With respect to the New Testament, Josephus' "Antiquities of the Jews" is the most contemporary historical account of the region, written in the late 1st century, and attests to the execution of John the Baptist by Herod Antipas, the rule of Pontius Pilate in Judea, and some other events attested to in the New Testament. Some of these events are themselves corroborated by Roman authors and archaeological evidence, such as coins and the Pilate stone.
dustincoates 2y ago
The Bible is a mixture of history, poetry, wisdom literature, and much more. There's a really fascinating study Bible (ESV Archaeology Study Bible) that does a fantastic job of putting everything into its historical, sociopolitical, and geographical context.
randomNumber7 2y ago

freilanzer 2y ago

Same with geopolitics now, since the USA have basically sided with Russia against Ukraine. I want to have a solid background to be able to interpret current events and tendencies.

LastTrain 2y ago
You’ve been siding with Russia since 1776?
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  (We had a kind of falling out when Capitalism felt threatened.)
- JadeNB 2y ago
  > You’ve been siding with Russia since 1776? Huh? In most senses of "siding with," I don't think that this statement has really been true for this broad a sweep of US history.
  - LastTrain 2y ago
    To say I misread your original comment would be an understatement, my apologies.
    - JadeNB 2y ago
      I am not freilanzer, who made the comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43410830 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43410830 to which you responded, so, if you do think an apology is warranted, then it should probably be to them.

saulpw 2y ago

> What’s funny is that history is the subject I was least interested in all through school. Indeed, history is largely lost on kids. You need to see some real world events play out before you can care about history. I also think, if you're going to teach history to children, it should be taught in reverse chronology. Basically here's what's happening now, and that's due to what happened last year, which is due to what happened last decade, etc. Work your way back to the Greeks and Babylonians. Like James Burke's Connections.

vik0 2y ago
>it should be taught in reverse chronology. Basically here's what's happening now, and that's due to what happened last year, which is due to what happened last decade, etc Boy, oh boy, you will hate Karl Popper if you ever decide to read him lol
- saulpw 2y ago
  I've read some of his work (only a little bit), but I can't figure out what you're referring to. Is it just that we can't properly know what causes what? For the purposes of childhood education that does not matter too much :)
  - vik0 2y ago
    Fair enough