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My point was mainly that causing chaos for the regular citizen/voter tends to drive them into supporting the opposite party, especially if they are promising sa

by gedy 2y ago

My point was mainly that causing chaos for the regular citizen/voter tends to drive them into supporting the opposite party, especially if they are promising safety and stability. Even the Nazis had to consider what their citizens were willing to put up with, so targeting everyday people with stunts like this would just undermine support for any viable opposition. "Worse" just meant having more unconditional support even earlier - that couldn't do a good thing. Graffiting a Telsa may make the vandalizer feel good, but it doesn't win votes for the opposition.

anigbrowl 2y ago
How often are totalitarian regimes defeated by voting, though? The problem with this mindset is that people can use it to talk themselves out of ever doing anything, which is the ideal environment for totalitarianism. Unpleasant as these tactics are, they seem to be effective in achieving their goal of cratering Tesla sales.
- gedy 2y ago
  > they seem to be effective in achieving their goal of cratering Tesla sales. I just don't think that ultimately wins elections, hearts, or minds.
  - anigbrowl 2y ago
    Why are historical events like the Boston Tea Party celebrated then? After all the tea merchants were innocent and did not impose the tax upon the American colonists, they were just shrewd negotiators who managed to carve out an exemption for themselves. Or as a more recent example, look at the January 6 2021 protests. Trump supporters quite literally stormed the national legislature; although a lot of the rank and file ended up in prison, none of the organizers even faced charges, and 4 years later Trump regained office, in part based on his promise to pardon all the J6 defendants (which he subsequently did). Now one could argue about what proportion of hearts and minds hold him in affection by comparing various opinion polls, but the reality is that he holds power and is wielding it like it's going out of fashion. So while I agree with you that it's an unlikeable tactic (the more so when it impacts individual consumers; I don't much care about the dealerships), I disagree about its longer-term effectiveness. There's a lot of evidence pointing to the conclusion that violating norms frequently pays off. Protests that go out of their way not to offend or inconvenience anyone may attract some sympathy but seem to yield little in the way of results.

by gedy 2y ago

anigbrowl 2y ago

How often are totalitarian regimes defeated by voting, though? The problem with this mindset is that people can use it to talk themselves out of ever doing anything, which is the ideal environment for totalitarianism. Unpleasant as these tactics are, they seem to be effective in achieving their goal of cratering Tesla sales.

gedy 2y ago
> they seem to be effective in achieving their goal of cratering Tesla sales. I just don't think that ultimately wins elections, hearts, or minds.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  Why are historical events like the Boston Tea Party celebrated then? After all the tea merchants were innocent and did not impose the tax upon the American colonists, they were just shrewd negotiators who managed to carve out an exemption for themselves. Or as a more recent example, look at the January 6 2021 protests. Trump supporters quite literally stormed the national legislature; although a lot of the rank and file ended up in prison, none of the organizers even faced charges, and 4 years later Trump regained office, in part based on his promise to pardon all the J6 defendants (which he subsequently did). Now one could argue about what proportion of hearts and minds hold him in affection by comparing various opinion polls, but the reality is that he holds power and is wielding it like it's going out of fashion. So while I agree with you that it's an unlikeable tactic (the more so when it impacts individual consumers; I don't much care about the dealerships), I disagree about its longer-term effectiveness. There's a lot of evidence pointing to the conclusion that violating norms frequently pays off. Protests that go out of their way not to offend or inconvenience anyone may attract some sympathy but seem to yield little in the way of results.