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There has to be someone on the ISS at all times - unless you want to abandon and decommission it, that is, but nobody (except Elon Musk) is suggesting to do tha

by rob74 2y ago

There has to be someone on the ISS at all times - unless you want to abandon and decommission it, that is, but nobody (except Elon Musk) is suggesting to do that at this point in time...

throwaway73750 2y ago
>unless you want to abandon and decommission it, that is, but nobody (except Elon Musk) is suggesting to do that at this point in time... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39474840 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39474840 NASA will retire the ISS soon (npr.org) Feb 22, 2024
- rob74 2y ago
  In this case, "soon" means 2030, which is the planned "retirement" date. Musk suggests to do it even sooner, in two year's time (that would be 2027).
  - nailer 2y ago
    That's not a huge difference.
    - generj 2y ago
      It’s a massive difference to SpaceX who were awarded the de-orbit contract and would need a massive amount of extra funding to suddenly bring that project’s timeline forward three years. Also a large difference to all of NASA’s international partners who might lose out on astronaut slots, scientists with experiments that won’t be ran, dozens of contractor companies supporting ISS, etc.
lupusreal 2y ago
NASA awarded the deorbit contract to SpaceX during the Biden administration. The ISS is coming down whether you like it or not. The more you knew about this, the more you'd be okay with it. The station was obsolete before it was even built. NASA likes to justify the space station as a laboratory studying the effects of longterm space flight on humans; the results were in decades ago: it fucks people up. Human bodies begin to deteriorate in microgravity, even one year isn't healthy and there's nothing we can do about it. No exercise regime can fix it, the only possible solution is a station which spins. This was known before the ISS was built, but they didn't build a spin station. They built Mir 2, using the Soviet DOS-8 module. Mir 1 had the DOS-7 module, the previous modules were the Salyut stations. When the Soviets got tooled up to build something they liked to keep building it forever, and that's what happened here. The Salyut stations came from a period in time when space stations actually had a rational purpose; being a platform for humans to take reconnaissance photos of other countries. This role was quickly made obsolete by recon satellites, but the Soviets were tooled up to build them so they kept at it, while the equivalent systems in America were canceled. If you're familiar with Robert Crippen, the computer specialist and nominal pilot of STS-1, you'll know that he was originally training for operation with the Manned Orbital Laboratory before joining NASA. That was America's Soyuz. It was canceled when satellites proved their capabilities. The Soviets started using satellites but kept their station program anyway, due to the wonderful efficiencies of their system. NASA tried to use space stations as a justification for continuing Apollo levels of funding (Skylab) but that didn't work out for them and American apace station activities ended there. Some Americans were later sent to Mir and found it to be in a horrific state, a veritable death trap that got lucky on numerous occasions. The only reason America got involved with Mir 2, rechristening it as the ISS, is because America wanted to prop up the Russian space industry to prevent total collapse and a subsequent diaspora of talent to less friendly nations. It is at least not quite as dangerous as Mir 1, but it's still a dead end technology that serves no genuine scientific purpose, with a political justification which is now just as obsolete. But the science experiments! How could I have forgotten something so important. All kinds of very important pharmaceutical science or something, I am told. So important, that when companies fielding proposals for replacement stations go looking for customers, they come up empty. NASA wants commercial partners for the next station but the whole thing is a slowly unfolding boondoggle. Edit to add: Starship isn't going to Mars. Its a satellite launcher surrounded by aspirational propaganda to keep young engineers motivated. And Lunar Gateway, originally the "Deep Space Gateway" before Artemis came up, is meant to exist only to give ISS mission control staff new jobs when the ISS is gone. Soviet style pork.
- rob74 2y ago
  Well, okay, the same arguments can be used to question why we need (crewed) space exploration at all. It's extremely expensive, it doesn't really bring any new scientific data. We've been to the Moon already, and what there is still to know about it can also be learned with robotic probes. Same goes for mining. Exploring Mars can also be done very well without involving humans. Colonization, you say? Maybe fix our problems on Earth first before "infecting" other planets with our species?
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    See my edit, Mars colonization isn't happening. And if NASA were serious about developing the future of human spaceflight they would be developing spin Hans, not trying to build the same bullshit over and over again.

by rob74 2y ago

There has to be someone on the ISS at all times - unless you want to abandon and decommission it, that is, but nobody (except Elon Musk) is suggesting to do that at this point in time...

throwaway73750 2y ago

>unless you want to abandon and decommission it, that is, but nobody (except Elon Musk) is suggesting to do that at this point in time... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39474840 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39474840 NASA will retire the ISS soon (npr.org) Feb 22, 2024

rob74 2y ago
In this case, "soon" means 2030, which is the planned "retirement" date. Musk suggests to do it even sooner, in two year's time (that would be 2027).
- nailer 2y ago
  That's not a huge difference.
  - generj 2y ago
    It’s a massive difference to SpaceX who were awarded the de-orbit contract and would need a massive amount of extra funding to suddenly bring that project’s timeline forward three years. Also a large difference to all of NASA’s international partners who might lose out on astronaut slots, scientists with experiments that won’t be ran, dozens of contractor companies supporting ISS, etc.

lupusreal 2y ago

NASA awarded the deorbit contract to SpaceX during the Biden administration. The ISS is coming down whether you like it or not. The more you knew about this, the more you'd be okay with it. The station was obsolete before it was even built. NASA likes to justify the space station as a laboratory studying the effects of longterm space flight on humans; the results were in decades ago: it fucks people up. Human bodies begin to deteriorate in microgravity, even one year isn't healthy and there's nothing we can do about it. No exercise regime can fix it, the only possible solution is a station which spins. This was known before the ISS was built, but they didn't build a spin station. They built Mir 2, using the Soviet DOS-8 module. Mir 1 had the DOS-7 module, the previous modules were the Salyut stations. When the Soviets got tooled up to build something they liked to keep building it forever, and that's what happened here. The Salyut stations came from a period in time when space stations actually had a rational purpose; being a platform for humans to take reconnaissance photos of other countries. This role was quickly made obsolete by recon satellites, but the Soviets were tooled up to build them so they kept at it, while the equivalent systems in America were canceled. If you're familiar with Robert Crippen, the computer specialist and nominal pilot of STS-1, you'll know that he was originally training for operation with the Manned Orbital Laboratory before joining NASA. That was America's Soyuz. It was canceled when satellites proved their capabilities. The Soviets started using satellites but kept their station program anyway, due to the wonderful efficiencies of their system. NASA tried to use space stations as a justification for continuing Apollo levels of funding (Skylab) but that didn't work out for them and American apace station activities ended there. Some Americans were later sent to Mir and found it to be in a horrific state, a veritable death trap that got lucky on numerous occasions. The only reason America got involved with Mir 2, rechristening it as the ISS, is because America wanted to prop up the Russian space industry to prevent total collapse and a subsequent diaspora of talent to less friendly nations. It is at least not quite as dangerous as Mir 1, but it's still a dead end technology that serves no genuine scientific purpose, with a political justification which is now just as obsolete. But the science experiments! How could I have forgotten something so important. All kinds of very important pharmaceutical science or something, I am told. So important, that when companies fielding proposals for replacement stations go looking for customers, they come up empty. NASA wants commercial partners for the next station but the whole thing is a slowly unfolding boondoggle. Edit to add: Starship isn't going to Mars. Its a satellite launcher surrounded by aspirational propaganda to keep young engineers motivated. And Lunar Gateway, originally the "Deep Space Gateway" before Artemis came up, is meant to exist only to give ISS mission control staff new jobs when the ISS is gone. Soviet style pork.

rob74 2y ago
Well, okay, the same arguments can be used to question why we need (crewed) space exploration at all. It's extremely expensive, it doesn't really bring any new scientific data. We've been to the Moon already, and what there is still to know about it can also be learned with robotic probes. Same goes for mining. Exploring Mars can also be done very well without involving humans. Colonization, you say? Maybe fix our problems on Earth first before "infecting" other planets with our species?
- lupusreal 2y ago
  See my edit, Mars colonization isn't happening. And if NASA were serious about developing the future of human spaceflight they would be developing spin Hans, not trying to build the same bullshit over and over again.