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Bluesky consists of PDSs and a central indexing server. Bluesky themselves can say that their indexing server won't accept backdated posts, thus making all post

Bluesky consists of PDSs and a central indexing server. Bluesky themselves can say that their indexing server won't accept backdated posts, thus making all posts on the Bluesky app itself have valid dates, but others would then be able to make another version of Bluesky with the same posts that also does accept backdated posts.

rglullis 2y ago
> a central indexing server. Then can we drop the pretense that ATProto is actually usable without Bluesky's AppView? [0] > posts on the Bluesky app itself have valid dates Who's to say what is a "valid date" in a decentralized system that (in theory) does not have a central authority nor depends on a consensus mechanism? [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42634786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42634786
- odo1242 2y ago
  ATProto is usable without Bluesky’s AppView. You just need to create another centralized indexing server of your own and have it index all PDSs. This is certainly less decentralized than other systems since there’s a barrier to entry (getting the compute power to index all PDSs), but that’s the tradeoff you make by not having server-specific namespaces like Mastodon does. They seem to also make their AppView implementation open-source, which seems to show their goodwill. You do still get the benefits of being able to interoperate between different apps that may not know each other exist without the disadvantages of having server-specific namespaces, which is of course the point. “A valid date” would be determined by said server (BlueSky’s or yours). You could choose to write a server that enforces consistent dates or one that does not, and the definition of a valid date would be different per AppView. I acknowledge the other way of doing it which ActivityPub uses has some benefits as well.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    ActivityPods implements ActivityPub vocabulary while using SOLID data stores. You get your identity and data, you can interact with other ActivityPub software and you do not need to rely or set up any centralized indexer. There is no "goodwill". Bluesky's plan (from day one!) has been to create something that could have been used by Twitter to keep them as the gatekeeper of the data while removing them from any liability for custody. They know that their moat is on their expensive indexer and they will not take any measure that gives this power to end users.
    - pfraze 2y ago
      One of our current projects is to create a partial sync model so that self hosted appviews can be run more cheaply. After that, it’s really just the cost of physics

rglullis 2y ago

> a central indexing server. Then can we drop the pretense that ATProto is actually usable without Bluesky's AppView? [0] > posts on the Bluesky app itself have valid dates Who's to say what is a "valid date" in a decentralized system that (in theory) does not have a central authority nor depends on a consensus mechanism? [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42634786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42634786

odo1242 2y ago
ATProto is usable without Bluesky’s AppView. You just need to create another centralized indexing server of your own and have it index all PDSs. This is certainly less decentralized than other systems since there’s a barrier to entry (getting the compute power to index all PDSs), but that’s the tradeoff you make by not having server-specific namespaces like Mastodon does. They seem to also make their AppView implementation open-source, which seems to show their goodwill. You do still get the benefits of being able to interoperate between different apps that may not know each other exist without the disadvantages of having server-specific namespaces, which is of course the point. “A valid date” would be determined by said server (BlueSky’s or yours). You could choose to write a server that enforces consistent dates or one that does not, and the definition of a valid date would be different per AppView. I acknowledge the other way of doing it which ActivityPub uses has some benefits as well.
- rglullis 2y ago
  ActivityPods implements ActivityPub vocabulary while using SOLID data stores. You get your identity and data, you can interact with other ActivityPub software and you do not need to rely or set up any centralized indexer. There is no "goodwill". Bluesky's plan (from day one!) has been to create something that could have been used by Twitter to keep them as the gatekeeper of the data while removing them from any liability for custody. They know that their moat is on their expensive indexer and they will not take any measure that gives this power to end users.
  - pfraze 2y ago
    One of our current projects is to create a partial sync model so that self hosted appviews can be run more cheaply. After that, it’s really just the cost of physics