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Spoken like someone who has never talked to a Ukrainian and doesn't know anything about the conflict If Trump really wanted to end the war he'd send more weapo

by rat87 2y ago

Spoken like someone who has never talked to a Ukrainian and doesn't know anything about the conflict If Trump really wanted to end the war he'd send more weapons and support Ukraine. Instead https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-halts-program-track-abducted-ukrainian-children-lawmakers-2025-03-18/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-halts-... I also hate China's dictatorship but its hard to say we are so much better when President wants to emulate them. Trump doesn't think the US is better then China just richer. And not in a soul searching way, Trump doesn't believe in being better. He's an amoral authoritarian who's literally praise Tianamen square massacre as a strong response. So we might still be better but not for long if we dont fight back. And its not surprising if our allies dont trust us when we are backstabbing Ukraine and threatening to annex Canada.

hakfoo 2y ago
The problem is that there's no realistic options in Ukraine. If the only acceptable answer is 1991 borders, that's going to be an incredibly expensive proposition. The "economic isolation/sanctions will work any day now" strategy doesn't seem to be delivering, and any amount of defensive armament we could supply will be just chewed up for several years to come. Maybe if you give it another five years, Putin will finally lose interest or exhaust his resources, but in the interim tens of thousands more will die. This war is expensive for Russia too, but for them it's a matter of national face-- this was a pretty blatant response to their sphere of influence being swallowed by NATO/EU expansion. So trying to get them to fold, especially when they have the stronger military position right now, is a hard sell. I'm not sure even resumption of trade/readmission to institutions is that big of a prize to offer, considering that their brand is pretty much sunk-- who's queuing up to buy Russian goods now? We could lean into the idea this is about national face-- figure out the smallest concession Ukraine has to offer so Putin can declare a "victory" and de-escalate. But we're so adamant about 'we cannot reward the bully', or convinced that he'll keep trying for expansionism that we don't treat this option seriously. There's a lot of belief that if Putin is allowed to keep a square millimetre of Ukraine, he will treat it as a license to keep pushing the border west. I'm not sure. We've proven that territorial conquest will be expensive and time-consuming, and I'm sure this has forced them to re-price all their assumptions. He has to finish what he started in Ukraine, but there's far less shame if he simply drops a hypothetical mission in Moldova or Georgia from unformalized future plans..
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- geoka9 2y ago
  > who's queuing up to buy Russian goods now? They are a resource extraction economy and there will always be a buyer for those. > The "economic isolation/sanctions will work any day now" strategy doesn't seem to be delivering > We've proven that territorial conquest will be expensive and time-consuming Well, which one is it? If the former, why would they deescalate at all? The point is that they don't need (just) any part of Ukraine, or to save face or any of that. That's not why they started the war. Their goal is to take down the world order in which the coalition of western democracies decides what goes - after all you can't buy whole nations, but you can always influence corrupt authoritarian leaders. Until that goal is achieved, Russia will keep waging wars, while also destabilizing said democracies by financing ultra-right/populist politicians and pushing Goebbels-like propaganda and conspiracies to their people. The west simply doesn't have a choice if it wants to remain free and in control; it needs to keep up the pressure until the Russian regime runs out of money for the war and/or gets changed from within.
tonyhart7 2y ago
"If Trump really wanted to end the war he'd send more weapons and support Ukraine" ukrainian have entire western + nato support for 2-3 years already, what makes you think this year any different???
- rat87 2y ago
  Russia is not getting any fresher either. Maybe he could increase aid. He was largely responsible for delaying aid previously which hurt Ukraine and also hurt Europe and america. As opposed to cutting off aid giving Russia false hope of outlasting and conquering Ukraine and other parts of Europe which encourages Putin to continue the war
  - tonyhart7 2y ago
    the front line barely moving for the past year, even if NATO send more (they already sent equipment they can sent) it would not affect the outcome only prolonged the conflict we all know that russia is not winning but they are not losing either, any Ukrainian/Russian offensive is not happen soon and only battle of attrition at this point (which russian have an edge because more people available in russia)
    - ikrenji 2y ago
      war is won by outproducing your enemy. EU and USA could easily outproduce ruzzia if there was political will for it. backing down from putin is a bad move
      - tonyhart7 2y ago
        if US and Europe can pay it sure

by rat87 2y ago

hakfoo 2y ago

The problem is that there's no realistic options in Ukraine. If the only acceptable answer is 1991 borders, that's going to be an incredibly expensive proposition. The "economic isolation/sanctions will work any day now" strategy doesn't seem to be delivering, and any amount of defensive armament we could supply will be just chewed up for several years to come. Maybe if you give it another five years, Putin will finally lose interest or exhaust his resources, but in the interim tens of thousands more will die. This war is expensive for Russia too, but for them it's a matter of national face-- this was a pretty blatant response to their sphere of influence being swallowed by NATO/EU expansion. So trying to get them to fold, especially when they have the stronger military position right now, is a hard sell. I'm not sure even resumption of trade/readmission to institutions is that big of a prize to offer, considering that their brand is pretty much sunk-- who's queuing up to buy Russian goods now? We could lean into the idea this is about national face-- figure out the smallest concession Ukraine has to offer so Putin can declare a "victory" and de-escalate. But we're so adamant about 'we cannot reward the bully', or convinced that he'll keep trying for expansionism that we don't treat this option seriously. There's a lot of belief that if Putin is allowed to keep a square millimetre of Ukraine, he will treat it as a license to keep pushing the border west. I'm not sure. We've proven that territorial conquest will be expensive and time-consuming, and I'm sure this has forced them to re-price all their assumptions. He has to finish what he started in Ukraine, but there's far less shame if he simply drops a hypothetical mission in Moldova or Georgia from unformalized future plans..

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
geoka9 2y ago
> who's queuing up to buy Russian goods now? They are a resource extraction economy and there will always be a buyer for those. > The "economic isolation/sanctions will work any day now" strategy doesn't seem to be delivering > We've proven that territorial conquest will be expensive and time-consuming Well, which one is it? If the former, why would they deescalate at all? The point is that they don't need (just) any part of Ukraine, or to save face or any of that. That's not why they started the war. Their goal is to take down the world order in which the coalition of western democracies decides what goes - after all you can't buy whole nations, but you can always influence corrupt authoritarian leaders. Until that goal is achieved, Russia will keep waging wars, while also destabilizing said democracies by financing ultra-right/populist politicians and pushing Goebbels-like propaganda and conspiracies to their people. The west simply doesn't have a choice if it wants to remain free and in control; it needs to keep up the pressure until the Russian regime runs out of money for the war and/or gets changed from within.

tonyhart7 2y ago

"If Trump really wanted to end the war he'd send more weapons and support Ukraine" ukrainian have entire western + nato support for 2-3 years already, what makes you think this year any different???

rat87 2y ago
Russia is not getting any fresher either. Maybe he could increase aid. He was largely responsible for delaying aid previously which hurt Ukraine and also hurt Europe and america. As opposed to cutting off aid giving Russia false hope of outlasting and conquering Ukraine and other parts of Europe which encourages Putin to continue the war
- tonyhart7 2y ago
  the front line barely moving for the past year, even if NATO send more (they already sent equipment they can sent) it would not affect the outcome only prolonged the conflict we all know that russia is not winning but they are not losing either, any Ukrainian/Russian offensive is not happen soon and only battle of attrition at this point (which russian have an edge because more people available in russia)
  - ikrenji 2y ago
    war is won by outproducing your enemy. EU and USA could easily outproduce ruzzia if there was political will for it. backing down from putin is a bad move
    - tonyhart7 2y ago
      if US and Europe can pay it sure