4 ms·

How would they revoke someone's degree in either country? Do they break into someone's house and steal the piece of paper? A degree is awarded by the institutio

How would they revoke someone's degree in either country? Do they break into someone's house and steal the piece of paper? A degree is awarded by the institution but I don't see how they could then claim that they did not meet the requirements for the degree retroactively absent some proof of academic misconduct. What possible difference would such a renovation make to anyone outside the university?

sophacles 2y ago
They will deny that you have a degree from them if asked. The difference it can make: When a future employer has degree requirements, the university will say "no, he has no degree from here" when someone calls to check, closing off all sorts of jobs. If someone is doing a background check, the "claims a fancy degree but the school denies it" line is not going to look good. Etc. Sure the person still has the education, but they haven't got the right credentials in a verifiable way.
spwa4 2y ago
The value of a degree is in that the institution confirms, at any request, that said person has that degree. It's not the paper.
- nothercastle 2y ago
  Definitely not the education that occurred there it seems
  - klipt 2y ago
    You can get education for free on Kahn Academy ... but not the networking or confirmation of credentials.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  That’s an unnecessarily reductionist take. The value is obviously having demonstrated that you’ve completed the studies required. The degree is simply the formal proof. If a degree is revoked, that’s a secondary signal that the studies were marked as completed at one time but something later happened that was so egregious that the university felt the need to rescind any endorsements. Discovery of rampant cheating to achieve graduation would do it. Taking over a campus building and vandalizing it seems like a reasonable thing to cause the university to want to rescind their endorsement of you.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    > Taking over a campus building and vandalizing it seems like a reasonable thing to cause the university to want to rescind their endorsement of you. I take it you are unfamiliar with what happened at Columbia University in 1968, and in particular how the university feels about it now.
setopt 2y ago
> What possible difference would such a renovation make to anyone outside the university? In some places, potential employers call the university to verify that you have the degree you claimed to prevent fraud. If so, the university can simply tell them the degree had been revoked thus blocking you from a job offer if it requires it.
- upofadown 2y ago
  Sure but wouldn't the institution have to justify the revocation? If it was, say, due to supporting the wrong faction in the Middle East the employer might not support the revocation. Without justification, couldn't the degree holder sue the institution for some sort of defamation?
  - setopt 2y ago
    > Sure but wouldn't the institution have to justify the revocation? The people answering that phone or email are low-level admin staff far removed from those who decided to revoke the degree – I don’t know whether they have access to the reasoning or justification behind the revocation. > Without justification, couldn't the degree holder sue the institution for some sort of defamation? I honestly hope so – I’m quite against being able to revoke a degree due to other reasons than plain fraud (like plagiarism or fabrication). But I don’t know the laws well enough to answer.

sophacles 2y ago

They will deny that you have a degree from them if asked. The difference it can make: When a future employer has degree requirements, the university will say "no, he has no degree from here" when someone calls to check, closing off all sorts of jobs. If someone is doing a background check, the "claims a fancy degree but the school denies it" line is not going to look good. Etc. Sure the person still has the education, but they haven't got the right credentials in a verifiable way.

spwa4 2y ago

The value of a degree is in that the institution confirms, at any request, that said person has that degree. It's not the paper.

nothercastle 2y ago
Definitely not the education that occurred there it seems
- klipt 2y ago
  You can get education for free on Kahn Academy ... but not the networking or confirmation of credentials.
Aurornis 2y ago
That’s an unnecessarily reductionist take. The value is obviously having demonstrated that you’ve completed the studies required. The degree is simply the formal proof. If a degree is revoked, that’s a secondary signal that the studies were marked as completed at one time but something later happened that was so egregious that the university felt the need to rescind any endorsements. Discovery of rampant cheating to achieve graduation would do it. Taking over a campus building and vandalizing it seems like a reasonable thing to cause the university to want to rescind their endorsement of you.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  > Taking over a campus building and vandalizing it seems like a reasonable thing to cause the university to want to rescind their endorsement of you. I take it you are unfamiliar with what happened at Columbia University in 1968, and in particular how the university feels about it now.

setopt 2y ago

> What possible difference would such a renovation make to anyone outside the university? In some places, potential employers call the university to verify that you have the degree you claimed to prevent fraud. If so, the university can simply tell them the degree had been revoked thus blocking you from a job offer if it requires it.

upofadown 2y ago
Sure but wouldn't the institution have to justify the revocation? If it was, say, due to supporting the wrong faction in the Middle East the employer might not support the revocation. Without justification, couldn't the degree holder sue the institution for some sort of defamation?
- setopt 2y ago
  > Sure but wouldn't the institution have to justify the revocation? The people answering that phone or email are low-level admin staff far removed from those who decided to revoke the degree – I don’t know whether they have access to the reasoning or justification behind the revocation. > Without justification, couldn't the degree holder sue the institution for some sort of defamation? I honestly hope so – I’m quite against being able to revoke a degree due to other reasons than plain fraud (like plagiarism or fabrication). But I don’t know the laws well enough to answer.