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Well at least in my opinion, it seems extremely undemocratic. University education is a privilege that some people won’t be able to experience (financial const

Well at least in my opinion, it seems extremely undemocratic. University education is a privilege that some people won’t be able to experience (financial constraints, having to care for relatives, …), and I don’t think it’s a unique qualifier for being a good president. I think if people want to elect someone who didn’t go to university, they should be able to.

deleted 2y ago
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ChoGGi 2y ago
Apparently colleges and trade schools count as well.
- crooked-v 2y ago
  Except actually they don't, because no matter how you qualify, it will get taken away anyway if you try to use it.
darkhorn 2y ago
Democracy doesn't work when ordinary people are not educated. Education in Turkey has been very poor. Many people have finished only 5th or 8th grades. Many didn't go to a high school. Thus people are not critical thinkers. They are voting as if they are supporting a football team. Someone popular with a low education can fool people, just like in Turkey or Venezuella. And now here we see the result. Erdoğan has no diploma and he is trying to keep his seat by doing everything. Would you mind your money in the bank managed by illeterate person? Or would you mind going to a doctor without any degree? Why you are going to trust somone who does not have legal degree? In my opinion university degree is not enough. He should have at least masters degree.
- echoangle 2y ago
  If the democracy doesn’t work because voters aren’t educated, you can’t just bolt on constraints onto the election process until you like the result. That’s undemocratic by definition. The solution would be to educate voters.
- quesera 2y ago
  > They are voting as if they are supporting a football team In the post-TV era, I believe this is true in all countries.
- chrisco255 2y ago
  > Democracy doesn't work when ordinary people are not educated When USA was formed and for the first couple hundred years of its existence, most people in it didn't have a high school or college degree. In fact many of the founders of the United States had no degree, including Benjamin Franklin, who was a newspaper editor, scientist, statesman and inventor. Literacy can be learned by the 5th grade by most people. It can continue to be improved by self-study. Other skills can be learned by life experience. Modern schooling can mostly be faked. It's pretty easy to breeze your way through a four year degree these days. Professors are even incentivized to make the courses easy. Hell, you can even have LLMs do your homework for you these days.
  - tokioyoyo 2y ago
    I don't think many people look up to USA and think "oh yeah, that's a great system, we should have it". Many systems cannot be replicated for cultural, historical and other reasons. Frankly, requiring basic qualifications for a very complex job is actually a solid thing. Especially when any trade school/university degree would work. I don't agree with revoking of the degrees part, but that's just government trying to shut down the opposition. If it wasn't for the degree, they would've done something else, just like it happens during every election.
    - chrisco255 2y ago
      I think many people actually do look up to the USA given the hundreds of millions who want to migrate here. I will give you that culture matters when it comes to political systems. However, there are no arbitrary qualifications or certifications worth imposing on a country's leadership. They are blatantly gameable and trivially corruptible, as seen in the example. Leadership qualities are apparent in their own right and can be earned from a diverse path of life achievements. Those might include founding a successful business, acting as a general, major, or captain in the military, inventing new products or technologies, running a charity, heading a police or fire department, running a church, working up the corporate ladder from entry level, etc etc. There are thousands of career paths that don't require degrees and there are phenomenal leaders within those domains. It's incredibly ignorant to deny those unique and valuable people from being eligible for arbitrary reasons.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- psychlops 2y ago
  Democracy works just fine either way. You just might not like the results. Also, because a person doesn't have an education doesn't mean they are stupid or can't think critically. Further, there are plenty of educated people who vote for their favorite team.
- jajko 2y ago
  Critical thinking ain't something that you get somehow magically taught on university. Life, its hardships and some sort of keen interest in understanding people and society around you may lead one to such wisdom. Undemocratic countries in fact go directly against that, having education system producing obedient uncritical drones. The more time you spend in it, the greater effect it has on you. IQ doesn't matter that much neither here. This sort of primitive elitism ain't the healthiest approach.

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ChoGGi 2y ago

Apparently colleges and trade schools count as well.

crooked-v 2y ago
Except actually they don't, because no matter how you qualify, it will get taken away anyway if you try to use it.

darkhorn 2y ago

Democracy doesn't work when ordinary people are not educated. Education in Turkey has been very poor. Many people have finished only 5th or 8th grades. Many didn't go to a high school. Thus people are not critical thinkers. They are voting as if they are supporting a football team. Someone popular with a low education can fool people, just like in Turkey or Venezuella. And now here we see the result. Erdoğan has no diploma and he is trying to keep his seat by doing everything. Would you mind your money in the bank managed by illeterate person? Or would you mind going to a doctor without any degree? Why you are going to trust somone who does not have legal degree? In my opinion university degree is not enough. He should have at least masters degree.

echoangle 2y ago
If the democracy doesn’t work because voters aren’t educated, you can’t just bolt on constraints onto the election process until you like the result. That’s undemocratic by definition. The solution would be to educate voters.
quesera 2y ago
> They are voting as if they are supporting a football team In the post-TV era, I believe this is true in all countries.
chrisco255 2y ago
> Democracy doesn't work when ordinary people are not educated When USA was formed and for the first couple hundred years of its existence, most people in it didn't have a high school or college degree. In fact many of the founders of the United States had no degree, including Benjamin Franklin, who was a newspaper editor, scientist, statesman and inventor. Literacy can be learned by the 5th grade by most people. It can continue to be improved by self-study. Other skills can be learned by life experience. Modern schooling can mostly be faked. It's pretty easy to breeze your way through a four year degree these days. Professors are even incentivized to make the courses easy. Hell, you can even have LLMs do your homework for you these days.
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  I don't think many people look up to USA and think "oh yeah, that's a great system, we should have it". Many systems cannot be replicated for cultural, historical and other reasons. Frankly, requiring basic qualifications for a very complex job is actually a solid thing. Especially when any trade school/university degree would work. I don't agree with revoking of the degrees part, but that's just government trying to shut down the opposition. If it wasn't for the degree, they would've done something else, just like it happens during every election.
  - chrisco255 2y ago
    I think many people actually do look up to the USA given the hundreds of millions who want to migrate here. I will give you that culture matters when it comes to political systems. However, there are no arbitrary qualifications or certifications worth imposing on a country's leadership. They are blatantly gameable and trivially corruptible, as seen in the example. Leadership qualities are apparent in their own right and can be earned from a diverse path of life achievements. Those might include founding a successful business, acting as a general, major, or captain in the military, inventing new products or technologies, running a charity, heading a police or fire department, running a church, working up the corporate ladder from entry level, etc etc. There are thousands of career paths that don't require degrees and there are phenomenal leaders within those domains. It's incredibly ignorant to deny those unique and valuable people from being eligible for arbitrary reasons.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
psychlops 2y ago
Democracy works just fine either way. You just might not like the results. Also, because a person doesn't have an education doesn't mean they are stupid or can't think critically. Further, there are plenty of educated people who vote for their favorite team.
jajko 2y ago
Critical thinking ain't something that you get somehow magically taught on university. Life, its hardships and some sort of keen interest in understanding people and society around you may lead one to such wisdom. Undemocratic countries in fact go directly against that, having education system producing obedient uncritical drones. The more time you spend in it, the greater effect it has on you. IQ doesn't matter that much neither here. This sort of primitive elitism ain't the healthiest approach.