4 ms·

Isn't this just the latest cut in your democracy's death by a thousand cuts?

by fracus 2y ago

HenryBemis 2y ago
I'd add also a thousand bullets, a thousand tortures, a thousand rapes, and a thousand days in prison for having a different opinion and expressing it.
bamboozled 2y ago
Seems like for much of the world?
- pstuart 2y ago
  Sadly, yes. I'm not sure what it will take to make people realize that a "strong man" is not the answer.
  - bamboozled 2y ago
    I doubt, but wonder if it's a generational thing, like would the twenty somethings be into strongmen when they're the majority of voters? I used to think the younger generation were a bit different but I've seen them pretty much obsess over MAGA, Joe Rogan et al. So more of the same I guess?
    - jajko 2y ago
      Human nature goes deep and doesnt change much across generations
    - Lanolderen 2y ago
      Essentially, young people want change, old people want stability. The right in the US has been advertising in the direction of change so it's liked for it. Especially by young people doomscrolling about "property prices now vs before" and cartelgram/liveleakesque videos. Once you get older you get a stable job, family, etc so you're less nervous about life and have better things to do than to get your adrenaline up watching people get murdered. Written from the perspective of someone who's started to get comfortable in life. Now I'm quite mild politically but I can go more right short term if I spend some time watching people get butchered by gangs/nutcases. Some of my friends still watch a lot of that and it definitely makes you very much like having a "capacity for violence". It's one of those things that's IMO good in moderation, since some paranoia is healthy but off the deep end it turns into "get them before they get me"esque genocidal ideas and scrolling the nazi army webm montages and gore threads on /gif/ / /b/ at 2AM.
      - hulitu 2y ago
        > Essentially, young people want change, old people want stability Old people have learned that change always means worse. Corruption is so big that it isn't really matter who is in power, the system functions as intended. (All over the world)
        Lanolderen 2y ago
        Not necessarily worse IMO but that it's a painful process for mediocre improvements.
chgs 2y ago
[flagged]
- alephnerd 2y ago
  It's a disrepectful comparison for Turkish nationals working hard to build democratic institutions. The US hasn't had the same history of coups, insurgencies, pogroms, massacres, censorship, corruption, etc. Making everything about the US is just rude.
  - hackyhacky 2y ago
    Why is it rude? Do you think Americans haven't worked hard to build democratic institutions?
    - Teever 2y ago
      It's not that it's rude per se, it's that users of this site who aren't from the US find it irksome when a subject that isn't the US comes up and someone invariably pivots it to talk about the US and current events. It's okay to talk about stuff that isn't contemporary American politics or even sit the conversation out and observe others talking about non American subjects. Not everything has to be about America.
      - ok_dad 2y ago
        Unfortunately, a lot of countries are doing a similar thing as these countries, there’s a lot of authoritarians taking over all over the world. I think people should talk not only about the history or events in one country, but also talk about how other places are following in their footsteps and how we can prevent it from going forward where we can. Also, interestingly, when folks talk about how the USA is sliding into authoritarianism on HN, it’s often downvoted, while for other countries it’s treated as serious and obvious, so it’s hard for Americans to see people agree that Turkey is doing bad stuff but they deny the same for America. Lessons need to be shared so we can all do better together, I think.
john-radio 2y ago
Isn't it always?
- sigmoid10 2y ago
  Turkey has a rich history of coups. But when secular parts of the armed forces tried to oust Erdogan's regime by force in 2016, he didn't just fight them off but used the event as a justification to clean house and prevent these things altogether. He's pretty much following Putin's approach at solidifying his position. So 2016 was essentially the death blow to their democracy.
  - johnthewise 2y ago
    2016 wasn't secular coup. the last of few secular ones were in 2000s, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Justice_and_Development_Party_closure_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Justice_and_Development_P...
    - sigmoid10 2y ago
      2016 was specifically because of Erdogan's anti-secular movements: https://www.haber3.com/guncel/asker-trt-binasinda-iste-039darbe039-bildirisi-haberi-4401863 https://www.haber3.com/guncel/asker-trt-binasinda-iste-039da...
gunian 2y ago
[dead]
EasyMark 2y ago
Much like America is taking a hit these days, only judges seem to care or be able to do anything. I was just having a bar discussion during happy hour how America is becoming a fascist country more in line with the way Turkey and India are, rather than Russia or Venezuela (more sudden)

Isn't this just the latest cut in your democracy's death by a thousand cuts?

by fracus 2y ago

Isn't this just the latest cut in your democracy's death by a thousand cuts?

I'd add also a thousand bullets, a thousand tortures, a thousand rapes, and a thousand days in prison for having a different opinion and expressing it.

bamboozled 2y ago

Seems like for much of the world?

pstuart 2y ago
Sadly, yes. I'm not sure what it will take to make people realize that a "strong man" is not the answer.
- bamboozled 2y ago
  I doubt, but wonder if it's a generational thing, like would the twenty somethings be into strongmen when they're the majority of voters? I used to think the younger generation were a bit different but I've seen them pretty much obsess over MAGA, Joe Rogan et al. So more of the same I guess?
  - jajko 2y ago
    Human nature goes deep and doesnt change much across generations
  - Lanolderen 2y ago
    Essentially, young people want change, old people want stability. The right in the US has been advertising in the direction of change so it's liked for it. Especially by young people doomscrolling about "property prices now vs before" and cartelgram/liveleakesque videos. Once you get older you get a stable job, family, etc so you're less nervous about life and have better things to do than to get your adrenaline up watching people get murdered. Written from the perspective of someone who's started to get comfortable in life. Now I'm quite mild politically but I can go more right short term if I spend some time watching people get butchered by gangs/nutcases. Some of my friends still watch a lot of that and it definitely makes you very much like having a "capacity for violence". It's one of those things that's IMO good in moderation, since some paranoia is healthy but off the deep end it turns into "get them before they get me"esque genocidal ideas and scrolling the nazi army webm montages and gore threads on /gif/ / /b/ at 2AM.
    - hulitu 2y ago
      > Essentially, young people want change, old people want stability Old people have learned that change always means worse. Corruption is so big that it isn't really matter who is in power, the system functions as intended. (All over the world)
      - Lanolderen 2y ago
        Not necessarily worse IMO but that it's a painful process for mediocre improvements.

chgs 2y ago

[flagged]

alephnerd 2y ago
It's a disrepectful comparison for Turkish nationals working hard to build democratic institutions. The US hasn't had the same history of coups, insurgencies, pogroms, massacres, censorship, corruption, etc. Making everything about the US is just rude.
- hackyhacky 2y ago
  Why is it rude? Do you think Americans haven't worked hard to build democratic institutions?
  - Teever 2y ago
    It's not that it's rude per se, it's that users of this site who aren't from the US find it irksome when a subject that isn't the US comes up and someone invariably pivots it to talk about the US and current events. It's okay to talk about stuff that isn't contemporary American politics or even sit the conversation out and observe others talking about non American subjects. Not everything has to be about America.
    - ok_dad 2y ago
      Unfortunately, a lot of countries are doing a similar thing as these countries, there’s a lot of authoritarians taking over all over the world. I think people should talk not only about the history or events in one country, but also talk about how other places are following in their footsteps and how we can prevent it from going forward where we can. Also, interestingly, when folks talk about how the USA is sliding into authoritarianism on HN, it’s often downvoted, while for other countries it’s treated as serious and obvious, so it’s hard for Americans to see people agree that Turkey is doing bad stuff but they deny the same for America. Lessons need to be shared so we can all do better together, I think.

john-radio 2y ago

Isn't it always?

sigmoid10 2y ago
Turkey has a rich history of coups. But when secular parts of the armed forces tried to oust Erdogan's regime by force in 2016, he didn't just fight them off but used the event as a justification to clean house and prevent these things altogether. He's pretty much following Putin's approach at solidifying his position. So 2016 was essentially the death blow to their democracy.
- johnthewise 2y ago
  2016 wasn't secular coup. the last of few secular ones were in 2000s, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Justice_and_Development_Party_closure_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Justice_and_Development_P...
  - sigmoid10 2y ago
    2016 was specifically because of Erdogan's anti-secular movements: https://www.haber3.com/guncel/asker-trt-binasinda-iste-039darbe039-bildirisi-haberi-4401863 https://www.haber3.com/guncel/asker-trt-binasinda-iste-039da...

gunian 2y ago

[dead]

EasyMark 2y ago

Much like America is taking a hit these days, only judges seem to care or be able to do anything. I was just having a bar discussion during happy hour how America is becoming a fascist country more in line with the way Turkey and India are, rather than Russia or Venezuela (more sudden)