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If you do business in the US as ASML does then it's a good idea to comply with sanctions. Otherwise they'll sanction you too. It only works until it does not,

If you do business in the US as ASML does then it's a good idea to comply with sanctions. Otherwise they'll sanction you too. It only works until it does not, and it works less well if one does not abuse it. Maybe this administration will just make it more profitable and safer to ally with China at this rate. A number of countries will be making this decision in the next four years, and Americans very well may be disappointed.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
For what it's worth, Trump isn't unique in being sanctions happy. His drug of choice is tariffs, and those are more simply statutorily remedied by making IEEPA [1] actions subject to (a) a mandatory delay and (b) the CRA [2]. [1] https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R45618 https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R45618 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Review_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Review_Act
- fancyfredbot 2y ago
  The Biden administration imposed the export controls which prevent ASML from shipping their EUV machines to China.
tonyhart7 2y ago
"safer to ally with China at this rate" until china decide to conquer you politically,economically etc, well its same with US honestly but US atleast have functional democracy
- groby_b 2y ago
  I think you underestimate how much the US has severed bridges in the last two months.
  - tonyhart7 2y ago
    Trump literally want the war to end unlike previous administration where the objective is fight to the last ukrainian
    - rat87 2y ago
      Spoken like someone who has never talked to a Ukrainian and doesn't know anything about the conflict If Trump really wanted to end the war he'd send more weapons and support Ukraine. Instead https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-halts-program-track-abducted-ukrainian-children-lawmakers-2025-03-18/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-halts-... I also hate China's dictatorship but its hard to say we are so much better when President wants to emulate them. Trump doesn't think the US is better then China just richer. And not in a soul searching way, Trump doesn't believe in being better. He's an amoral authoritarian who's literally praise Tianamen square massacre as a strong response. So we might still be better but not for long if we dont fight back. And its not surprising if our allies dont trust us when we are backstabbing Ukraine and threatening to annex Canada.
      - hakfoo 2y ago
        The problem is that there's no realistic options in Ukraine. If the only acceptable answer is 1991 borders, that's going to be an incredibly expensive proposition. The "economic isolation/sanctions will work any day now" strategy doesn't seem to be delivering, and any amount of defensive armament we could supply will be just chewed up for several years to come. Maybe if you give it another five years, Putin will finally lose interest or exhaust his resources, but in the interim tens of thousands more will die. This war is expensive for Russia too, but for them it's a matter of national face-- this was a pretty blatant response to their sphere of influence being swallowed by NATO/EU expansion. So trying to get them to fold, especially when they have the stronger military position right now, is a hard sell. I'm not sure even resumption of trade/readmission to institutions is that big of a prize to offer, considering that their brand is pretty much sunk-- who's queuing up to buy Russian goods now? We could lean into the idea this is about national face-- figure out the smallest concession Ukraine has to offer so Putin can declare a "victory" and de-escalate. But we're so adamant about 'we cannot reward the bully', or convinced that he'll keep trying for expansionism that we don't treat this option seriously. There's a lot of belief that if Putin is allowed to keep a square millimetre of Ukraine, he will treat it as a license to keep pushing the border west. I'm not sure. We've proven that territorial conquest will be expensive and time-consuming, and I'm sure this has forced them to re-price all their assumptions. He has to finish what he started in Ukraine, but there's far less shame if he simply drops a hypothetical mission in Moldova or Georgia from unformalized future plans..
- dlisboa 2y ago
  For a significant part of the world China has not tried to conquer their country or done them any harm. Their only experience with toppling governments comes from the US doing it to them. History will catch up with the US one day.
  - CMay 2y ago
    Except China has been imperialist for longer than the US has existed. Then after the Qing dynasty fell and the CCP rose, they've been trying to imagine what the greatness of their past empire looked like and regain it. Their last empire was weak and out of touch with the world which caused self-inflicted humiliation. Now they're trying to form a stronger empire. Taking territory, taking sea, influencing international institutions and so on. They've been using unrestricted warfare to wage probably the largest scale influence campaign of any country in history to get China's way in the world. This, from a country that has very flexible views on the value of human life and sees the US's valuing of human life as a weakness to exploit. The CCP even used terrorist human shield tactics. We've fought China's enemies more than we've fought China. Germany, Japan, England and Russia all took territory from China. We've fought or pushed back against all of them. I'm sure the Great Wall exists for reasons you can imagine too. All of its neighbors are basically some kind of empire and China isn't exempt from playing the same game. People misunderstand our posture to our allies. We aren't losing them. We're making them stronger. The US and its allies all need to harden up, because that's the posture of China and Russia. To topple the US, you would have to topple a bunch of states simultaneously, because the federal government is irrelevant in that regard. That only gives you a chance, not even a guarantee of overturning the constitution. Even then, in the worst case our allies would see the value of our continued existence and possibly intervene. Don't expect to see it any time soon.
  - signatoremo 2y ago
    That is because China has only become regional and global power in the last 3 decades. They didn’t have the means to threaten the world. They do now. See how they projected their naval power against Australia and New Zealand - [0] China’s behavior in Africa and countries such as Laos and Cambodia resembles neocolonialism of the past - [1]. In other words, they acted exactly like colonists who controlled China a century ago. Even when they were a communism country, they caused conflicts with all of their neighbors — USSR, India, Vietnam. They supported Khmer Rouge and were responsible for the genocide that killed at least a million Khmers. They invaded and occupied Tibets. [0] - https://www.twz.com/news-features/chinas-sudden-live-fire-naval-drills-off-australia-rattle-camberra https://www.twz.com/news-features/chinas-sudden-live-fire-na... [1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocolonialism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocolonialism
- throwaway5752 2y ago
  The United States is credibly threatening to invade Canada, Greenland, and Panama. It is throwing absurd tariffs at anyone with a pulse except for Russia. It stabbed an ally, Ukraine, in the back. For a treaty with their invaders. Dividing Ukraine's national resources between the US and Russia, negotiated without Ukrainian representation, in Saudi Arabia. The space between the perception of America and China internationally has much less space between them a lot of Americans would prefer to acknowledge. I don't have much recent data, but I would suspect international sentiment on the whole right now is more favorable of China than the US in absolute terms.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

For what it's worth, Trump isn't unique in being sanctions happy. His drug of choice is tariffs, and those are more simply statutorily remedied by making IEEPA [1] actions subject to (a) a mandatory delay and (b) the CRA [2]. [1] https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R45618 https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R45618 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Review_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Review_Act

fancyfredbot 2y ago
The Biden administration imposed the export controls which prevent ASML from shipping their EUV machines to China.

tonyhart7 2y ago

"safer to ally with China at this rate" until china decide to conquer you politically,economically etc, well its same with US honestly but US atleast have functional democracy

groby_b 2y ago
I think you underestimate how much the US has severed bridges in the last two months.
- tonyhart7 2y ago
  Trump literally want the war to end unlike previous administration where the objective is fight to the last ukrainian
  - rat87 2y ago
    Spoken like someone who has never talked to a Ukrainian and doesn't know anything about the conflict If Trump really wanted to end the war he'd send more weapons and support Ukraine. Instead https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-halts-program-track-abducted-ukrainian-children-lawmakers-2025-03-18/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-halts-... I also hate China's dictatorship but its hard to say we are so much better when President wants to emulate them. Trump doesn't think the US is better then China just richer. And not in a soul searching way, Trump doesn't believe in being better. He's an amoral authoritarian who's literally praise Tianamen square massacre as a strong response. So we might still be better but not for long if we dont fight back. And its not surprising if our allies dont trust us when we are backstabbing Ukraine and threatening to annex Canada.
    - hakfoo 2y ago
      The problem is that there's no realistic options in Ukraine. If the only acceptable answer is 1991 borders, that's going to be an incredibly expensive proposition. The "economic isolation/sanctions will work any day now" strategy doesn't seem to be delivering, and any amount of defensive armament we could supply will be just chewed up for several years to come. Maybe if you give it another five years, Putin will finally lose interest or exhaust his resources, but in the interim tens of thousands more will die. This war is expensive for Russia too, but for them it's a matter of national face-- this was a pretty blatant response to their sphere of influence being swallowed by NATO/EU expansion. So trying to get them to fold, especially when they have the stronger military position right now, is a hard sell. I'm not sure even resumption of trade/readmission to institutions is that big of a prize to offer, considering that their brand is pretty much sunk-- who's queuing up to buy Russian goods now? We could lean into the idea this is about national face-- figure out the smallest concession Ukraine has to offer so Putin can declare a "victory" and de-escalate. But we're so adamant about 'we cannot reward the bully', or convinced that he'll keep trying for expansionism that we don't treat this option seriously. There's a lot of belief that if Putin is allowed to keep a square millimetre of Ukraine, he will treat it as a license to keep pushing the border west. I'm not sure. We've proven that territorial conquest will be expensive and time-consuming, and I'm sure this has forced them to re-price all their assumptions. He has to finish what he started in Ukraine, but there's far less shame if he simply drops a hypothetical mission in Moldova or Georgia from unformalized future plans..
dlisboa 2y ago
For a significant part of the world China has not tried to conquer their country or done them any harm. Their only experience with toppling governments comes from the US doing it to them. History will catch up with the US one day.
- CMay 2y ago
  Except China has been imperialist for longer than the US has existed. Then after the Qing dynasty fell and the CCP rose, they've been trying to imagine what the greatness of their past empire looked like and regain it. Their last empire was weak and out of touch with the world which caused self-inflicted humiliation. Now they're trying to form a stronger empire. Taking territory, taking sea, influencing international institutions and so on. They've been using unrestricted warfare to wage probably the largest scale influence campaign of any country in history to get China's way in the world. This, from a country that has very flexible views on the value of human life and sees the US's valuing of human life as a weakness to exploit. The CCP even used terrorist human shield tactics. We've fought China's enemies more than we've fought China. Germany, Japan, England and Russia all took territory from China. We've fought or pushed back against all of them. I'm sure the Great Wall exists for reasons you can imagine too. All of its neighbors are basically some kind of empire and China isn't exempt from playing the same game. People misunderstand our posture to our allies. We aren't losing them. We're making them stronger. The US and its allies all need to harden up, because that's the posture of China and Russia. To topple the US, you would have to topple a bunch of states simultaneously, because the federal government is irrelevant in that regard. That only gives you a chance, not even a guarantee of overturning the constitution. Even then, in the worst case our allies would see the value of our continued existence and possibly intervene. Don't expect to see it any time soon.
- signatoremo 2y ago
  That is because China has only become regional and global power in the last 3 decades. They didn’t have the means to threaten the world. They do now. See how they projected their naval power against Australia and New Zealand - [0] China’s behavior in Africa and countries such as Laos and Cambodia resembles neocolonialism of the past - [1]. In other words, they acted exactly like colonists who controlled China a century ago. Even when they were a communism country, they caused conflicts with all of their neighbors — USSR, India, Vietnam. They supported Khmer Rouge and were responsible for the genocide that killed at least a million Khmers. They invaded and occupied Tibets. [0] - https://www.twz.com/news-features/chinas-sudden-live-fire-naval-drills-off-australia-rattle-camberra https://www.twz.com/news-features/chinas-sudden-live-fire-na... [1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocolonialism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocolonialism
throwaway5752 2y ago
The United States is credibly threatening to invade Canada, Greenland, and Panama. It is throwing absurd tariffs at anyone with a pulse except for Russia. It stabbed an ally, Ukraine, in the back. For a treaty with their invaders. Dividing Ukraine's national resources between the US and Russia, negotiated without Ukrainian representation, in Saudi Arabia. The space between the perception of America and China internationally has much less space between them a lot of Americans would prefer to acknowledge. I don't have much recent data, but I would suspect international sentiment on the whole right now is more favorable of China than the US in absolute terms.