3 ms·

guy adds $1 million to bottom line. guy gets stock options, but only if he agrees to work there full-time?!? does anyone else see the ridiculousness in joel's

guy adds $1 million to bottom line. guy gets stock options, but only if he agrees to work there full-time?!? does anyone else see the ridiculousness in joel's proposal? no wonder the dude walked - that is a horrible deal. anyone in that position could now assume that any future huge contributions to the company would be rewarded in an equally miserly way. joel should have given him the shares outright - otherwise they're not a reward. and joel should be freakin embarrassed to even be telling this story - what a crook.

miles 18y ago
My thoughts exactly. Had you genuinely rewarded the guy without trying too hard to sink your claws in, he might very well have stayed.
IsaacSchlueter 18y ago
That actually sounds like a really fair deal. Part of the reward is the knowledge that Fog Creek really wants him to stay. Every performance-based reward I've gotten from Yahoo has been in the form of a retention bonus. "You did really great on that project. Here's a pile of stocks/cash that you'll get in 12/18/24 months if you're still around." A retention bonus provides a fair monetary award, while at the same time building the intrinsic motivation that comes from knowing your employer likes what you're doing. Rather than eroding the intrinsic motivation, a delayed extrinsic motivator can actually increase it.
- kscaldef 18y ago
  Yahoo got too dependent on their "super-secret" retention bonuses. The first couple times they did it, it made you feel special. But, eventually it became clear that it was just a way to avoid giving raises and promotions. Maybe you haven't hit that point, but trust me, lots of us got demotivated by it.
  - IsaacSchlueter 18y ago
    You're claiming that "secret" retention bonuses are a way to avoid "giving" promotions and raises? Wow, there's a lot wrong with both parts of that statement. Almost every company encourages their employees to never disclose their pay to their coworkers. It promotes an information imbalance where the employer wins. Unless you sign something saying that you won't disclose it (which would probably be contestable anyhow), or you're sharing it with someone who doesn't want to know (which would just be rude and potentially disruptive), they can't fire you for telling people what you make. Don't do it, plain and simple. If you didn't agree to keep it a secret, then it's not a secret. With all of my raises and bonuses-that-not-everyone-gets, I was discrete, just as my bosses asked of me. I only share my compensation information with anyone and everyone who wants to know. It's time we changed this stupid "secret salary" custom. Also, promotions and raises aren't given, they're taken. You're a grownup, why should your employer care more about your career than you do? Want a promotion? Take more responsibility. Be more essential. Be a leader. Want a raise? Get a better offer, and ask your employer to match it. Write essays, share code, increase your skillset, help your juniors, always be finding ways to make the product better, ways to make the team's processes more efficient. If you just want to do your job and stay warm, that's fine, but don't expect to get special treatment. A yearly 2-7% cost-of-living pay increase is probably about right. It sounds harsh, I know, and I'm sure this might not have been your angle at all. I just get annoyed hearing about employees who dutifully do no more than they're told, and wait and hope for review time as if it's christmas, and then get upset when they're treated like cogs in a machine, when they've been acting exactly like cogs in a machine.
    - IsaacSchlueter 18y ago
      Clarification: when I said "Don't do it," I meant, "Don't keep it a secret." Sorry, that was kind of awkwardly phrased. Should have reread before posting.
    - anewaccountname 18y ago
      >they can't fire you for telling people what you make. Yes they can. Unless you are talking about Western Europe or something.

miles 18y ago

My thoughts exactly. Had you genuinely rewarded the guy without trying too hard to sink your claws in, he might very well have stayed.

IsaacSchlueter 18y ago

That actually sounds like a really fair deal. Part of the reward is the knowledge that Fog Creek really wants him to stay. Every performance-based reward I've gotten from Yahoo has been in the form of a retention bonus. "You did really great on that project. Here's a pile of stocks/cash that you'll get in 12/18/24 months if you're still around." A retention bonus provides a fair monetary award, while at the same time building the intrinsic motivation that comes from knowing your employer likes what you're doing. Rather than eroding the intrinsic motivation, a delayed extrinsic motivator can actually increase it.

kscaldef 18y ago
Yahoo got too dependent on their "super-secret" retention bonuses. The first couple times they did it, it made you feel special. But, eventually it became clear that it was just a way to avoid giving raises and promotions. Maybe you haven't hit that point, but trust me, lots of us got demotivated by it.
- IsaacSchlueter 18y ago
  You're claiming that "secret" retention bonuses are a way to avoid "giving" promotions and raises? Wow, there's a lot wrong with both parts of that statement. Almost every company encourages their employees to never disclose their pay to their coworkers. It promotes an information imbalance where the employer wins. Unless you sign something saying that you won't disclose it (which would probably be contestable anyhow), or you're sharing it with someone who doesn't want to know (which would just be rude and potentially disruptive), they can't fire you for telling people what you make. Don't do it, plain and simple. If you didn't agree to keep it a secret, then it's not a secret. With all of my raises and bonuses-that-not-everyone-gets, I was discrete, just as my bosses asked of me. I only share my compensation information with anyone and everyone who wants to know. It's time we changed this stupid "secret salary" custom. Also, promotions and raises aren't given, they're taken. You're a grownup, why should your employer care more about your career than you do? Want a promotion? Take more responsibility. Be more essential. Be a leader. Want a raise? Get a better offer, and ask your employer to match it. Write essays, share code, increase your skillset, help your juniors, always be finding ways to make the product better, ways to make the team's processes more efficient. If you just want to do your job and stay warm, that's fine, but don't expect to get special treatment. A yearly 2-7% cost-of-living pay increase is probably about right. It sounds harsh, I know, and I'm sure this might not have been your angle at all. I just get annoyed hearing about employees who dutifully do no more than they're told, and wait and hope for review time as if it's christmas, and then get upset when they're treated like cogs in a machine, when they've been acting exactly like cogs in a machine.
  - IsaacSchlueter 18y ago
    Clarification: when I said "Don't do it," I meant, "Don't keep it a secret." Sorry, that was kind of awkwardly phrased. Should have reread before posting.
  - anewaccountname 18y ago
    >they can't fire you for telling people what you make. Yes they can. Unless you are talking about Western Europe or something.