5 ms·

The sooner we can get America off of relying on Social Security and into a real investment program, the better. SS is literally a ponzi scheme disguised as a s

The sooner we can get America off of relying on Social Security and into a real investment program, the better. SS is literally a ponzi scheme disguised as a social insurance program. Everyone would be much better off if you were forced to invest the same amount of money into a personal 401k and some % of returns was skimmed off to be redistributed to low income earners. At least then we'd all be honest about what the programs goals are and how much money is redistributed.

tehjoker 2y ago
This is a crazed scheme from wall street. No thanks.
giraffe_lady 2y ago
You're doing that thing where you are creating a plausible justification of their goals and methods that they have not in fact presented and that is not real. The fact that someone could have a good reason for wanting to change social security does not mean that musk does, or that any good result can come from this one. They are doing this illegally, these are crimes. Stop propagandizing in support of them.
michaelsshaw 2y ago
The money is redistributed from your pocket, via taxes, to the pockets of primarily billionaires who don't need more money.
- richwater 2y ago
  Social Security payout is the same whether you make $176,100 a year or $50 million a year.
  - michaelsshaw 2y ago
    I mean, I work labor so I don't have a set pay, but it's not even nearly half of your first figure. And its also not really my point. You could consider tax cuts on the rich irrelevant since the money was going directly to them anyway. In other words: welfare is only considered trash if you're poor.
sanderjd 2y ago
Counterpoint: No thank you!
- johngladtj 2y ago
  You're welcome to invest your own money into ponzi schemes. I just ask that you don't force me to do so as well, or to bail you out. Would you support such a change?
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    Nope! I would not.
  - rat87 2y ago
    I prefer to have universal enrollment in a safe old age payment system like social security so that even if people do fall for ponzi schemes they will be protected by social security
    - chneu 2y ago
      The joke is that social security is a ponzi scheme. Because it basically is one.
      - tim333 2y ago
        In most countries, certainly the UK where I live social security payments in are made from workers to the government. At the same time the government pays out social security to those in need. There is no fund, payment in approximately matches payment out. It is not a ponzi scheme, it's normal government taxing those with money and paying out to those in need. It's nice the US has a fund but it's not necessary.
      - rat87 2y ago
        I get the "joke" My point is that its not a scheme and no damn politician is going to take social security away from us. And I and most others disagree with changing it to not be universal
thelastgallon 2y ago
Give people an option of taking a refund of all their SS payments so far and roll over to an IRA/401K. No more SS. I'm sure some people will be interested in that. Government doesn't need to collect from everyone to reallocate. Govt can print money to give to the poor, doesn't need anyone's permission to print money, which they do by trillions.
- avidiax 2y ago
  > Govt can print money Exactly, why pay taxes at all? We can just print the money. /s
archimedes237 2y ago
A lot of people wouldn't be able to manage it personally if they had a 401k even if they had the best of intentions.
goatlover 2y ago
It's not a ponzi scheme, stop buying into the privatization lies. No thank you.
- sershe 2y ago
  What is your definition of a ponzi scheme? It is literally, definitionally one. The only difference from other ponzi schemes where newe entrants pay out unsustainable amounts to old entrants is that new entrants are forced in.
  - ModernMech 2y ago
    It's not literally, definitionally one because a ponzi scheme is first and foremost a scheme -- fraud. Social security is literally, definitionally not a scheme; it's legal, audited, and fully transparent. > new entrants are forced in. Yes and that makes it materially different from a ponzi scheme.
    - sershe 2y ago
      The scheme can just mean "plan". For the first "difference", ~nobody studies the terms of how social security operates before starting to pay into it. Would you say that if I run a ponzi scheme but put a bit of fine print somewhere the investor will not read when joining, admitting it is in fact a ponzi scheme, it is suddenly not a ponzi scheme? I can even make it audited to warn the investors when it runs out of money decades later, no recourse though! Still a ponzi scheme. For the 2nd one, indeed, that is a material difference. Of course, that makes it worse than just a regular ponzi scheme! In the above example, if I somehow read the disclaimer and refuse to participate, the ponzi scheme operator now points a gun at me and forces me! And of course, this "material difference" only makes a real difference as long as demographics are favorable. So yeah, it's a thinly-disguised ponzi, combined with forced labor.
      - dns_snek 2y ago
        Why stop at social security? All societal benefits derived from taxation can be said to be a ponzi scheme if you're determined enough.
georgemcbay 2y ago
> Everyone would be much better off if you were forced to invest the same amount of money into a personal 401k Try telling this to people whose target retirement year was 2008. And I'm sure the people relying on 401ks to retire in 2026 are feeling a bit on edge right now.
- richwater 2y ago
  If you didn't have 4-5 years worth of non-securities like bonds to start off your retirement year you are just an idiot. An idiot loses their money in a variety of ways, none of which is exclusive to the market going down and affecting a 401k
jaybrendansmith 2y ago
Look, I am not even opposed to treating Social Security like a Pension, where the money is invested. I might even support a slow switchover (it would take decades) to a real pension fund. But would I trust these clowns to do it? HELL NO.

tehjoker 2y ago

This is a crazed scheme from wall street. No thanks.

giraffe_lady 2y ago

You're doing that thing where you are creating a plausible justification of their goals and methods that they have not in fact presented and that is not real. The fact that someone could have a good reason for wanting to change social security does not mean that musk does, or that any good result can come from this one. They are doing this illegally, these are crimes. Stop propagandizing in support of them.

michaelsshaw 2y ago

The money is redistributed from your pocket, via taxes, to the pockets of primarily billionaires who don't need more money.

richwater 2y ago
Social Security payout is the same whether you make $176,100 a year or $50 million a year.
- michaelsshaw 2y ago
  I mean, I work labor so I don't have a set pay, but it's not even nearly half of your first figure. And its also not really my point. You could consider tax cuts on the rich irrelevant since the money was going directly to them anyway. In other words: welfare is only considered trash if you're poor.

sanderjd 2y ago

Counterpoint: No thank you!

johngladtj 2y ago
You're welcome to invest your own money into ponzi schemes. I just ask that you don't force me to do so as well, or to bail you out. Would you support such a change?
- sanderjd 2y ago
  Nope! I would not.
- rat87 2y ago
  I prefer to have universal enrollment in a safe old age payment system like social security so that even if people do fall for ponzi schemes they will be protected by social security
  - chneu 2y ago
    The joke is that social security is a ponzi scheme. Because it basically is one.
    - tim333 2y ago
      In most countries, certainly the UK where I live social security payments in are made from workers to the government. At the same time the government pays out social security to those in need. There is no fund, payment in approximately matches payment out. It is not a ponzi scheme, it's normal government taxing those with money and paying out to those in need. It's nice the US has a fund but it's not necessary.
    - rat87 2y ago
      I get the "joke" My point is that its not a scheme and no damn politician is going to take social security away from us. And I and most others disagree with changing it to not be universal

thelastgallon 2y ago

Give people an option of taking a refund of all their SS payments so far and roll over to an IRA/401K. No more SS. I'm sure some people will be interested in that. Government doesn't need to collect from everyone to reallocate. Govt can print money to give to the poor, doesn't need anyone's permission to print money, which they do by trillions.

avidiax 2y ago
> Govt can print money Exactly, why pay taxes at all? We can just print the money. /s

archimedes237 2y ago

A lot of people wouldn't be able to manage it personally if they had a 401k even if they had the best of intentions.

goatlover 2y ago

It's not a ponzi scheme, stop buying into the privatization lies. No thank you.

sershe 2y ago
What is your definition of a ponzi scheme? It is literally, definitionally one. The only difference from other ponzi schemes where newe entrants pay out unsustainable amounts to old entrants is that new entrants are forced in.
- ModernMech 2y ago
  It's not literally, definitionally one because a ponzi scheme is first and foremost a scheme -- fraud. Social security is literally, definitionally not a scheme; it's legal, audited, and fully transparent. > new entrants are forced in. Yes and that makes it materially different from a ponzi scheme.
  - sershe 2y ago
    The scheme can just mean "plan". For the first "difference", ~nobody studies the terms of how social security operates before starting to pay into it. Would you say that if I run a ponzi scheme but put a bit of fine print somewhere the investor will not read when joining, admitting it is in fact a ponzi scheme, it is suddenly not a ponzi scheme? I can even make it audited to warn the investors when it runs out of money decades later, no recourse though! Still a ponzi scheme. For the 2nd one, indeed, that is a material difference. Of course, that makes it worse than just a regular ponzi scheme! In the above example, if I somehow read the disclaimer and refuse to participate, the ponzi scheme operator now points a gun at me and forces me! And of course, this "material difference" only makes a real difference as long as demographics are favorable. So yeah, it's a thinly-disguised ponzi, combined with forced labor.
    - dns_snek 2y ago
      Why stop at social security? All societal benefits derived from taxation can be said to be a ponzi scheme if you're determined enough.

georgemcbay 2y ago

> Everyone would be much better off if you were forced to invest the same amount of money into a personal 401k Try telling this to people whose target retirement year was 2008. And I'm sure the people relying on 401ks to retire in 2026 are feeling a bit on edge right now.

richwater 2y ago
If you didn't have 4-5 years worth of non-securities like bonds to start off your retirement year you are just an idiot. An idiot loses their money in a variety of ways, none of which is exclusive to the market going down and affecting a 401k

jaybrendansmith 2y ago

Look, I am not even opposed to treating Social Security like a Pension, where the money is invested. I might even support a slow switchover (it would take decades) to a real pension fund. But would I trust these clowns to do it? HELL NO.