4 ms·

Honestly, it sounds like we are in agreement except that I don't find those descriptions to be unfair, and I'm not sure why you would, after stating them yourse

by radlad 2y ago

Honestly, it sounds like we are in agreement except that I don't find those descriptions to be unfair, and I'm not sure why you would, after stating them yourself. They are common behavioral traits of the breed. Some breeds carry higher risks than others, due to both size / strength and temperament. This is the reason you suggest experienced owners.

belorn 2y ago
A Border Collie is not high risk. A Border Collie with an inexperienced owner can be, depending on the individuality of the dog. The behavior of a dog, any dog, are always the combination of breed, individual trait, and the owner. All three contribute to the potential of risk, with the biggest emphasis on the owner. It is why when a dog attacks, blame is put on the owner. When a horse kills a child, we would put the blame on the parents or handler. Horses size and temperament do make horses potentially very dangerous, much more than any dog, but we view that high potential risk in the context of the individual traits and the owner. It makes little sense to view it in isolation. A Border Collie with the common know issues of Border Collies goes against the breed standard of Border Collies. That may look like a contradiction. However, the good traits that the breed standard looks for may increase the difficulty of handling, but the breed standard do not look for the negative traits.
- radlad 2y ago
  Your first two sentences mostly sounds like a semantic argument to me. While I agree not all dogs within a breed are high risk (especially after quality training and while under the care of an experienced handler), I would say that if the breed exhibits a higher rate of "dangerous" traits, I would consider the breed to be higher risk than others. I agree handlers are and should be responsible for their animals' behavior - but I also don't believe you can fully control any animal. Like us they are sentient and have free will. I also believe that generally a breed/dog's "negative traits" (your term) are the flip side of their positive traits: herding -> nipping, scent hound -> runs off, high energy (work dog) / looks to humans for direction -> anxious / clingy, etc. I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

by radlad 2y ago

belorn 2y ago

A Border Collie is not high risk. A Border Collie with an inexperienced owner can be, depending on the individuality of the dog. The behavior of a dog, any dog, are always the combination of breed, individual trait, and the owner. All three contribute to the potential of risk, with the biggest emphasis on the owner. It is why when a dog attacks, blame is put on the owner. When a horse kills a child, we would put the blame on the parents or handler. Horses size and temperament do make horses potentially very dangerous, much more than any dog, but we view that high potential risk in the context of the individual traits and the owner. It makes little sense to view it in isolation. A Border Collie with the common know issues of Border Collies goes against the breed standard of Border Collies. That may look like a contradiction. However, the good traits that the breed standard looks for may increase the difficulty of handling, but the breed standard do not look for the negative traits.

radlad 2y ago
Your first two sentences mostly sounds like a semantic argument to me. While I agree not all dogs within a breed are high risk (especially after quality training and while under the care of an experienced handler), I would say that if the breed exhibits a higher rate of "dangerous" traits, I would consider the breed to be higher risk than others. I agree handlers are and should be responsible for their animals' behavior - but I also don't believe you can fully control any animal. Like us they are sentient and have free will. I also believe that generally a breed/dog's "negative traits" (your term) are the flip side of their positive traits: herding -> nipping, scent hound -> runs off, high energy (work dog) / looks to humans for direction -> anxious / clingy, etc. I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for sharing your perspective.