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Thanks for posting, I'm so excited to finally have a good summary! El Pais killing it, as usual. A comment and a challenging question: 1. We all pronounce it w

by bbor 2y ago

Thanks for posting, I'm so excited to finally have a good summary! El Pais killing it, as usual. A comment and a challenging question: 1. We all pronounce it wrong apparently, even the Mexicans who just substitute "ach" for "ecs" -- it's actually "sh", and the l is basically silent. An interesting example of cultural heritage where I, a quite progressive person trying my best to be accommodating to all cultures, just flat out refuse to change! It's just one of the best words out there, and I will not give it up for anything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d79EBJYJbuA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d79EBJYJbuA 2. Why don't we set up sanctuaries?! I read the entire article, but if there was a reason that the Axolotl could only survive in this one super specific, uber-populated place, I missed it. Appearently it can't get cold, ok fine -- but Mexico is huge, not to mention the rest of the world! Are we so dedicated to Leave No Trace that we'll let this incredible, unique, inspiring species die out in the wild rather than cull some lake of predatory fish? IMHO we need to be bolder about environmental design, because the changes are coming regardless; pretending like we can save everything is just lying to ourselves, especially as the global climate itself changes. Just recently, the US Feds moved forward on a plan to institute owl hunting permits just to protect the range of a particular owl from being encroached on, which... I mean, how can you shoot an owl and think of yourself as the good guy?

dhosek 2y ago
The range used to be somewhat larger, but the environment has been reduced (most of what’s now Mexico city used to be a lake). It needs the right combination of climate and environment which doesn’t really exist outside of Mexico City (and that environment is constantly being encroached upon and degraded, although it is relatively protected at least). It seems that many people know about the axolotl courtesy of Minecraft which on the one hand is cool because hey, now they know about this endangered species but on the other hand is not cool because a not insignificant number of them think, hey I want one as a pet which leads to poaching and death because neither poachers nor video gamers are adept at caring for fragile amphibians.
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  > which leads to poaching They are trivial to breed in captivity. No one sane is poaching them. Related, many (though probably not all) species deemed to be threatened by us would be better off if it were legal to keep them as pets.
SpicyUme 2y ago
The article mentions other similar Ambystoma salamanders, it sounds like the others are less studied. I've come across old mexican recipes for Axolotls, probably something I'll never eat. The floating gardens were an environment that is likely hard to replicate in other places, though certainly not impossible. Looking at an early spanish map and comparing it to google maps makes it clear how much changed as the Spanish drained the lakes. The article also mentions that axolotls are significant predators so they may not be great to introduce to other places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Patzcuaro_salamander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Patzcuaro_salamander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plateau_tiger_salamander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plateau_tiger_salamander
nkrisc 2y ago
> 1. We all pronounce it wrong apparently, even the Mexicans who just substitute "ach" for "ecs" -- it's actually "sh", and the l is basically silent. An interesting example of cultural heritage where I, a quite progressive person trying my best to be accommodating to all cultures, just flat out refuse to change! It's just one of the best words out there, and I will not give it up for anything. It's OK for different languages and cultures to have different names for the same thing. You probably wouldn't bat an eye at saying "alligator" in English but it likely comes from the Anglicization of the Spanish "el lagarto" (the lizard). Words from one language get adopted into other languages and modified all the time. A very large percentage of Modern English words are borrowed from various Romance languages, and others.
- msm_ 2y ago
  Even more obviously, in my language there are words "pizza", "kiwi", "de facto", "dystopia", "system", "terror", and they mean exactly the same thing as in english, but we pronounce them differently. And anyway, Romans pronounced "de facto" in yet another way, so it doesn't matter. Words get localised.
loloquwowndueo 2y ago
No Mexican would call them “axolotl” (a Nahuatl word). The Spanish word is “ajolote” and pronunciation there is unambiguous.

by bbor 2y ago

dhosek 2y ago

The range used to be somewhat larger, but the environment has been reduced (most of what’s now Mexico city used to be a lake). It needs the right combination of climate and environment which doesn’t really exist outside of Mexico City (and that environment is constantly being encroached upon and degraded, although it is relatively protected at least). It seems that many people know about the axolotl courtesy of Minecraft which on the one hand is cool because hey, now they know about this endangered species but on the other hand is not cool because a not insignificant number of them think, hey I want one as a pet which leads to poaching and death because neither poachers nor video gamers are adept at caring for fragile amphibians.

fc417fc802 2y ago
> which leads to poaching They are trivial to breed in captivity. No one sane is poaching them. Related, many (though probably not all) species deemed to be threatened by us would be better off if it were legal to keep them as pets.

SpicyUme 2y ago

The article mentions other similar Ambystoma salamanders, it sounds like the others are less studied. I've come across old mexican recipes for Axolotls, probably something I'll never eat. The floating gardens were an environment that is likely hard to replicate in other places, though certainly not impossible. Looking at an early spanish map and comparing it to google maps makes it clear how much changed as the Spanish drained the lakes. The article also mentions that axolotls are significant predators so they may not be great to introduce to other places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Patzcuaro_salamander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Patzcuaro_salamander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plateau_tiger_salamander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plateau_tiger_salamander

nkrisc 2y ago

> 1. We all pronounce it wrong apparently, even the Mexicans who just substitute "ach" for "ecs" -- it's actually "sh", and the l is basically silent. An interesting example of cultural heritage where I, a quite progressive person trying my best to be accommodating to all cultures, just flat out refuse to change! It's just one of the best words out there, and I will not give it up for anything. It's OK for different languages and cultures to have different names for the same thing. You probably wouldn't bat an eye at saying "alligator" in English but it likely comes from the Anglicization of the Spanish "el lagarto" (the lizard). Words from one language get adopted into other languages and modified all the time. A very large percentage of Modern English words are borrowed from various Romance languages, and others.

msm_ 2y ago
Even more obviously, in my language there are words "pizza", "kiwi", "de facto", "dystopia", "system", "terror", and they mean exactly the same thing as in english, but we pronounce them differently. And anyway, Romans pronounced "de facto" in yet another way, so it doesn't matter. Words get localised.

loloquwowndueo 2y ago

No Mexican would call them “axolotl” (a Nahuatl word). The Spanish word is “ajolote” and pronunciation there is unambiguous.