6 ms·

> Musk will be bankrupt. Then what? “We win” somehow? Nailed it? Who cares?

by dgfitz 2y ago

outer_web 2y ago
[flagged]
EnergyAmy 2y ago
[flagged]
- _bin_ 2y ago
  what else do you believe the appropriate outcome includes?
peppers-ghost 2y ago
[flagged]
TheAlchemist 2y ago
Yes we do. A lot of people, for a lot of different reasons. For me, it will be the end of the biggest con, the stock market has ever seen. And I can't wait to read about the details behind it, once the dust settles.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  What makes Tesla exactly a con? Their cars are amazing appliances, literally nothing in market like it, for less than a Toyota. FSD is largely delivered. Space internet for everyone (soon potentially also with Freedom™ now that Trump is involved in demonopolising space or whatever it's called) with a phone. Where is the con???
  - simongray 2y ago
    Before the inauguration, Tesla was trading at a P/E 30 times bigger than Toyota. Now it's about half that (110). Some say Tesla shouldn't be valued as a car stock; it should instead be valued as a Tech stock. Well, Tesla traded at a P/E about 4-5 times that of NVIDIA which itself had a high P/E compared to the other Magnificent 7 which in turn have a high P/E compared to the stock market in general. What exactly is Tesla so great at that they deserve this enormous valuation? Its P/E has gone down to ~110 now, bit this is still incredibly high compared to e.g. NVIDIA which is trading at a P/E of ~40.
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      That's too generous to Toyota IMO. Their cars are insufferable.
  - TheAlchemist 2y ago
    A lot of things, I will just cite one - "FSD is largely delivered". Really ? Can you tell us, where Full-Self Driving is really fully self-driving ? Like being able to summon your car from Los Angeles to New York, like Elon claimed one will be able to do in 2017 ! Tesla sold millions of cars that were supposedly going to become Robotaxis with a simple software update, somewhere in 2019. SIX YEARS AGO. Tesla even showed screenshots of a ride-sharing app. SIX YEARS AGO. Now it's obvious to anyone, that those cars will never become Robotaxis, as Tesla pivots to trying to fake a Roboataxi service this year, with remote operators. But the greatest con of course, was towards investors. Of course nobody is complaining now, since the stock is still a meme stock. Just wait a bit more...
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      You can buy supervised FSD right now. It works extremely well to the point testers are bored out of their minds - their channels became worthless since it barely makes any mistakes. It's overpriced and not available where I live, but I'd love one. It doesn't do everything under the sun as promised, but I'd rather drive less than more. The basic 10 year old Autopilot is already huge help. I'd say it's about 80% delivered. Far from a con.
      - TheAlchemist 2y ago
        Yeah, that's the problem with a real Full Self Driving. It's either 100%, or it's not. 80% doesn't make the cut. Do you seriously believe the company was valued at >1T$ because investors believed that an "FSD 80% delivered" is enough ? Tesla and Elon claimed ALMOST 10 YEARS AGO, that the car will drive itself from Los Angeles to New York. Just think how insane this is, even today. And then look up the state of their technology 10 years ago. Of course self driving will be solved one day. Probably not by Tesla. But it doesn't matter - they were selling this stuff for almost 10 years already, knowing perfectly well it doesn't work. But hey, next version will blow your mind !
        dzhiurgis 2y ago
        Every single company claimed something and haven’t delivered. Why single out one that actually delivered most of claims? I’m tine if you call it “some self driving”, I don’t care. I’m not going to put my car as a taxi, that’s stupid.
trilbyglens 2y ago
[flagged]
sundaeofshock 2y ago
Elon Musk’s power is based on his wealth. A bankrupt Elon Musk will no longer be able to influence politics in several nations. He won’t be able to buy the US presidency. He won’t be able to threaten primaries against US representatives. He’d lose Twitter. He’d most likely no longer be running the so-called Doge. So yes, we would very much win and there are a lot of people who care.

> Musk will be bankrupt. Then what? “We win” somehow? Nailed it? Who cares?

by dgfitz 2y ago

> Musk will be bankrupt. Then what? “We win” somehow? Nailed it? Who cares?

outer_web 2y ago

[flagged]

EnergyAmy 2y ago

[flagged]

_bin_ 2y ago
what else do you believe the appropriate outcome includes?

peppers-ghost 2y ago

[flagged]

TheAlchemist 2y ago

Yes we do. A lot of people, for a lot of different reasons. For me, it will be the end of the biggest con, the stock market has ever seen. And I can't wait to read about the details behind it, once the dust settles.

dzhiurgis 2y ago
What makes Tesla exactly a con? Their cars are amazing appliances, literally nothing in market like it, for less than a Toyota. FSD is largely delivered. Space internet for everyone (soon potentially also with Freedom™ now that Trump is involved in demonopolising space or whatever it's called) with a phone. Where is the con???
- simongray 2y ago
  Before the inauguration, Tesla was trading at a P/E 30 times bigger than Toyota. Now it's about half that (110). Some say Tesla shouldn't be valued as a car stock; it should instead be valued as a Tech stock. Well, Tesla traded at a P/E about 4-5 times that of NVIDIA which itself had a high P/E compared to the other Magnificent 7 which in turn have a high P/E compared to the stock market in general. What exactly is Tesla so great at that they deserve this enormous valuation? Its P/E has gone down to ~110 now, bit this is still incredibly high compared to e.g. NVIDIA which is trading at a P/E of ~40.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    That's too generous to Toyota IMO. Their cars are insufferable.
- TheAlchemist 2y ago
  A lot of things, I will just cite one - "FSD is largely delivered". Really ? Can you tell us, where Full-Self Driving is really fully self-driving ? Like being able to summon your car from Los Angeles to New York, like Elon claimed one will be able to do in 2017 ! Tesla sold millions of cars that were supposedly going to become Robotaxis with a simple software update, somewhere in 2019. SIX YEARS AGO. Tesla even showed screenshots of a ride-sharing app. SIX YEARS AGO. Now it's obvious to anyone, that those cars will never become Robotaxis, as Tesla pivots to trying to fake a Roboataxi service this year, with remote operators. But the greatest con of course, was towards investors. Of course nobody is complaining now, since the stock is still a meme stock. Just wait a bit more...
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    You can buy supervised FSD right now. It works extremely well to the point testers are bored out of their minds - their channels became worthless since it barely makes any mistakes. It's overpriced and not available where I live, but I'd love one. It doesn't do everything under the sun as promised, but I'd rather drive less than more. The basic 10 year old Autopilot is already huge help. I'd say it's about 80% delivered. Far from a con.
    - TheAlchemist 2y ago
      Yeah, that's the problem with a real Full Self Driving. It's either 100%, or it's not. 80% doesn't make the cut. Do you seriously believe the company was valued at >1T$ because investors believed that an "FSD 80% delivered" is enough ? Tesla and Elon claimed ALMOST 10 YEARS AGO, that the car will drive itself from Los Angeles to New York. Just think how insane this is, even today. And then look up the state of their technology 10 years ago. Of course self driving will be solved one day. Probably not by Tesla. But it doesn't matter - they were selling this stuff for almost 10 years already, knowing perfectly well it doesn't work. But hey, next version will blow your mind !
      - dzhiurgis 2y ago
        Every single company claimed something and haven’t delivered. Why single out one that actually delivered most of claims? I’m tine if you call it “some self driving”, I don’t care. I’m not going to put my car as a taxi, that’s stupid.

trilbyglens 2y ago

[flagged]

sundaeofshock 2y ago

Elon Musk’s power is based on his wealth. A bankrupt Elon Musk will no longer be able to influence politics in several nations. He won’t be able to buy the US presidency. He won’t be able to threaten primaries against US representatives. He’d lose Twitter. He’d most likely no longer be running the so-called Doge. So yes, we would very much win and there are a lot of people who care.