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The whole point is new buyers.. People are protesting Musk. Something like 75% of Musk's current wealth comes from Tesla stock. Tesla stock is going down.. so

by drooby 2y ago

The whole point is new buyers.. People are protesting Musk. Something like 75% of Musk's current wealth comes from Tesla stock. Tesla stock is going down.. so it is helping the cause

spiderfarmer 2y ago
Also the stock was effectively a meme stock. So now the jig is up, the stock deflates like no other.
- TheAlchemist 2y ago
  That's the funny thing here. In case of Musk, if those protests work and as you say 'the jig is up', he can go from the richest man on earth to bankrupt in a space of months. He is very 'cash poor' and has pledged a lot of Tesla shares as collateral to fund his other businesses. If Tesla is priced as an automaker (shares would be in the ±10-20$), Musk will be bankrupt.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    > Musk will be bankrupt. Then what? “We win” somehow? Nailed it? Who cares?
    - outer_web 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - EnergyAmy 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - _bin_ 2y ago
        what else do you believe the appropriate outcome includes?
    - peppers-ghost 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - TheAlchemist 2y ago
      Yes we do. A lot of people, for a lot of different reasons. For me, it will be the end of the biggest con, the stock market has ever seen. And I can't wait to read about the details behind it, once the dust settles.
      - dzhiurgis 2y ago
        What makes Tesla exactly a con? Their cars are amazing appliances, literally nothing in market like it, for less than a Toyota. FSD is largely delivered. Space internet for everyone (soon potentially also with Freedom™ now that Trump is involved in demonopolising space or whatever it's called) with a phone. Where is the con???
        simongray 2y ago
        Before the inauguration, Tesla was trading at a P/E 30 times bigger than Toyota. Now it's about half that (110). Some say Tesla shouldn't be valued as a car stock; it should instead be valued as a Tech stock. Well, Tesla traded at a P/E about 4-5 times that of NVIDIA which itself had a high P/E compared to the other Magnificent 7 which in turn have a high P/E compared to the stock market in general. What exactly is Tesla so great at that they deserve this enormous valuation? Its P/E has gone down to ~110 now, bit this is still incredibly high compared to e.g. NVIDIA which is trading at a P/E of ~40.
        dzhiurgis 2y ago
        That's too generous to Toyota IMO. Their cars are insufferable.
        TheAlchemist 2y ago
        A lot of things, I will just cite one - "FSD is largely delivered". Really ? Can you tell us, where Full-Self Driving is really fully self-driving ? Like being able to summon your car from Los Angeles to New York, like Elon claimed one will be able to do in 2017 ! Tesla sold millions of cars that were supposedly going to become Robotaxis with a simple software update, somewhere in 2019. SIX YEARS AGO. Tesla even showed screenshots of a ride-sharing app. SIX YEARS AGO. Now it's obvious to anyone, that those cars will never become Robotaxis, as Tesla pivots to trying to fake a Roboataxi service this year, with remote operators. But the greatest con of course, was towards investors. Of course nobody is complaining now, since the stock is still a meme stock. Just wait a bit more...
    - trilbyglens 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - sundaeofshock 2y ago
      Elon Musk’s power is based on his wealth. A bankrupt Elon Musk will no longer be able to influence politics in several nations. He won’t be able to buy the US presidency. He won’t be able to threaten primaries against US representatives. He’d lose Twitter. He’d most likely no longer be running the so-called Doge. So yes, we would very much win and there are a lot of people who care.
  - jkestner 2y ago
    Hence why they've now said they're a robot company. Yet any bullish targets now are more likely to be based on Musk awarding himself large government contracts than technical advancements.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      Didn't he cancel a large Tesla contract from the government?
- MPSimmons 2y ago
  What sucks is that the cars* are actually very, very good cars. I've owned three of them so far, and I love driving and owning them. They take almost no maintenance, and I've only had one problem that needed me to take it into the shop, and it was for a recall that was totally handled in a day, and they gave me a loaner. Legitimately, Teslas have been the best cars I've ever owned, but thanks to Elon, I will never buy another one, so long as he runs the company. * - not you, Cybertruck
  - spiderfarmer 2y ago
    Tesla can continue to operate without Musk.
    - MPSimmons 2y ago
      I wish it would.
back7co 2y ago
If you look at places like Reddit where the organizing is happening, they don't differentiate between left-leaning buyers of years past, and in fact call them out for being complicit by not selling their (paid for?) car. It's scorched earth and is not limited to new buyers.
- lovich 2y ago
  Scorched earth strategies can be effective depending on your goals.
- azakai 2y ago
  Reddit might not be representative of the larger shift. I am sure there is plenty of hatred, and even violence that makes the news, and that stuff is bad, but I mostly see people politely nudging those they know that own Teslas to sell them. Which makes sense. The company sold to left-leaning, environmentally conscious buyers, and the CEO has now rebranded Tesla to basically the worst thing for that demographic. Sales are down, resale values are dropping, and insurance rates are rising. And there is no real opportunity on the horizon to save the company and/or the brand (robotaxis without LiDAR..?) Maybe it looks like scorched earth on reddit, but in reality it's just a lot of people realizing the brand has self-destructed.
- gs17 2y ago
  > by not selling their (paid for?) car. It's even more confusing, who are they supposed to sell it to, if no one should drive these cars (and how big of a loss are they expected to take in order to sell it)?
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    If a foreign government that the US was acting hostile towards was so inclined, they could highly tariff Tesla sales/service and offer buy-outs to make existing owners whole where they simply crush and recycle the cars to deny Tesla any service revenue.
- powersnail 2y ago
  > It's scorched earth and is not limited to new buyers. This whole thing is about destroying already bought vehicles to intimidate potential new buyers, and thus lowering future sales. Not that I support the vandalism, but I think that's the kind of logic they are applying here.
mezeek 2y ago
He's got less than 20% of Tesla now, but he owns nearly half of SpaceX... bet you he'd be so so sooooooooo much richer if that went public too
- tobias3 2y ago
  With rational investors I doubt it. Space launch market size is like 20 billion. One launch is 70 million and they had 133 of them in 2024. Times two (currently at half market share) this would be 18 billion. That does not take into account that they are increasing the market size themselves with Starlink. And with Starlink it remains to be seen if that can be profitable. I doubt it. The Starlink satellites deorbit every 5 years and need to be replaced (CapEx+++). This is compared to the trillion+ EV market.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    Shotwell has claimed that Starlink is cash-flow-positive. They also have >5 million subscribers. ARPU is likely > $1000. Both Starlink and Starship are >$5B programs. SpaceX has not raised nor borrowed near enough money to fund both of those programs, indicating that they've got sufficient cash flow to mostly self-fund both of them as well as pay the salaries of >13,000 employees.
_bin_ 2y ago
wrong. the people in question are not "protesting" anything. they are committing violent destruction of property against random people who happened to buy an EV. calling them "protesters" only does a disservice to those who actually are. these people are criminals to catch and lock away, nothing more.
dzhiurgis 2y ago
What makes you think Elon cares about wealth? He's been telling about Mars for _2 decades_ and people somehow think he's a nazi about to pull off ethnic cleansing.
- sgerenser 2y ago
  There’s a saying about watching what people do, not what they say, that seems to apply well to Musk. The proof that Elon cares about wealth is that he keeps doing everything in his power to gain more of it (well, up until recently, but only because he found he can access power directly instead of indirectly through more wealth).

by drooby 2y ago

The whole point is new buyers.. People are protesting Musk. Something like 75% of Musk's current wealth comes from Tesla stock. Tesla stock is going down.. so it is helping the cause

spiderfarmer 2y ago

Also the stock was effectively a meme stock. So now the jig is up, the stock deflates like no other.

TheAlchemist 2y ago
That's the funny thing here. In case of Musk, if those protests work and as you say 'the jig is up', he can go from the richest man on earth to bankrupt in a space of months. He is very 'cash poor' and has pledged a lot of Tesla shares as collateral to fund his other businesses. If Tesla is priced as an automaker (shares would be in the ±10-20$), Musk will be bankrupt.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  > Musk will be bankrupt. Then what? “We win” somehow? Nailed it? Who cares?
  - outer_web 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - EnergyAmy 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - _bin_ 2y ago
      what else do you believe the appropriate outcome includes?
  - peppers-ghost 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - TheAlchemist 2y ago
    Yes we do. A lot of people, for a lot of different reasons. For me, it will be the end of the biggest con, the stock market has ever seen. And I can't wait to read about the details behind it, once the dust settles.
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      What makes Tesla exactly a con? Their cars are amazing appliances, literally nothing in market like it, for less than a Toyota. FSD is largely delivered. Space internet for everyone (soon potentially also with Freedom™ now that Trump is involved in demonopolising space or whatever it's called) with a phone. Where is the con???
      - simongray 2y ago
        Before the inauguration, Tesla was trading at a P/E 30 times bigger than Toyota. Now it's about half that (110). Some say Tesla shouldn't be valued as a car stock; it should instead be valued as a Tech stock. Well, Tesla traded at a P/E about 4-5 times that of NVIDIA which itself had a high P/E compared to the other Magnificent 7 which in turn have a high P/E compared to the stock market in general. What exactly is Tesla so great at that they deserve this enormous valuation? Its P/E has gone down to ~110 now, bit this is still incredibly high compared to e.g. NVIDIA which is trading at a P/E of ~40.
        dzhiurgis 2y ago
        That's too generous to Toyota IMO. Their cars are insufferable.
      - TheAlchemist 2y ago
        A lot of things, I will just cite one - "FSD is largely delivered". Really ? Can you tell us, where Full-Self Driving is really fully self-driving ? Like being able to summon your car from Los Angeles to New York, like Elon claimed one will be able to do in 2017 ! Tesla sold millions of cars that were supposedly going to become Robotaxis with a simple software update, somewhere in 2019. SIX YEARS AGO. Tesla even showed screenshots of a ride-sharing app. SIX YEARS AGO. Now it's obvious to anyone, that those cars will never become Robotaxis, as Tesla pivots to trying to fake a Roboataxi service this year, with remote operators. But the greatest con of course, was towards investors. Of course nobody is complaining now, since the stock is still a meme stock. Just wait a bit more...
  - trilbyglens 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - sundaeofshock 2y ago
    Elon Musk’s power is based on his wealth. A bankrupt Elon Musk will no longer be able to influence politics in several nations. He won’t be able to buy the US presidency. He won’t be able to threaten primaries against US representatives. He’d lose Twitter. He’d most likely no longer be running the so-called Doge. So yes, we would very much win and there are a lot of people who care.
- jkestner 2y ago
  Hence why they've now said they're a robot company. Yet any bullish targets now are more likely to be based on Musk awarding himself large government contracts than technical advancements.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    Didn't he cancel a large Tesla contract from the government?
MPSimmons 2y ago
What sucks is that the cars* are actually very, very good cars. I've owned three of them so far, and I love driving and owning them. They take almost no maintenance, and I've only had one problem that needed me to take it into the shop, and it was for a recall that was totally handled in a day, and they gave me a loaner. Legitimately, Teslas have been the best cars I've ever owned, but thanks to Elon, I will never buy another one, so long as he runs the company. * - not you, Cybertruck
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  Tesla can continue to operate without Musk.
  - MPSimmons 2y ago
    I wish it would.

back7co 2y ago

If you look at places like Reddit where the organizing is happening, they don't differentiate between left-leaning buyers of years past, and in fact call them out for being complicit by not selling their (paid for?) car. It's scorched earth and is not limited to new buyers.

lovich 2y ago
Scorched earth strategies can be effective depending on your goals.
azakai 2y ago
Reddit might not be representative of the larger shift. I am sure there is plenty of hatred, and even violence that makes the news, and that stuff is bad, but I mostly see people politely nudging those they know that own Teslas to sell them. Which makes sense. The company sold to left-leaning, environmentally conscious buyers, and the CEO has now rebranded Tesla to basically the worst thing for that demographic. Sales are down, resale values are dropping, and insurance rates are rising. And there is no real opportunity on the horizon to save the company and/or the brand (robotaxis without LiDAR..?) Maybe it looks like scorched earth on reddit, but in reality it's just a lot of people realizing the brand has self-destructed.
gs17 2y ago
> by not selling their (paid for?) car. It's even more confusing, who are they supposed to sell it to, if no one should drive these cars (and how big of a loss are they expected to take in order to sell it)?
- Marsymars 2y ago
  If a foreign government that the US was acting hostile towards was so inclined, they could highly tariff Tesla sales/service and offer buy-outs to make existing owners whole where they simply crush and recycle the cars to deny Tesla any service revenue.
powersnail 2y ago
> It's scorched earth and is not limited to new buyers. This whole thing is about destroying already bought vehicles to intimidate potential new buyers, and thus lowering future sales. Not that I support the vandalism, but I think that's the kind of logic they are applying here.

mezeek 2y ago

He's got less than 20% of Tesla now, but he owns nearly half of SpaceX... bet you he'd be so so sooooooooo much richer if that went public too

tobias3 2y ago
With rational investors I doubt it. Space launch market size is like 20 billion. One launch is 70 million and they had 133 of them in 2024. Times two (currently at half market share) this would be 18 billion. That does not take into account that they are increasing the market size themselves with Starlink. And with Starlink it remains to be seen if that can be profitable. I doubt it. The Starlink satellites deorbit every 5 years and need to be replaced (CapEx+++). This is compared to the trillion+ EV market.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Shotwell has claimed that Starlink is cash-flow-positive. They also have >5 million subscribers. ARPU is likely > $1000. Both Starlink and Starship are >$5B programs. SpaceX has not raised nor borrowed near enough money to fund both of those programs, indicating that they've got sufficient cash flow to mostly self-fund both of them as well as pay the salaries of >13,000 employees.

_bin_ 2y ago

wrong. the people in question are not "protesting" anything. they are committing violent destruction of property against random people who happened to buy an EV. calling them "protesters" only does a disservice to those who actually are. these people are criminals to catch and lock away, nothing more.

dzhiurgis 2y ago

What makes you think Elon cares about wealth? He's been telling about Mars for _2 decades_ and people somehow think he's a nazi about to pull off ethnic cleansing.

sgerenser 2y ago
There’s a saying about watching what people do, not what they say, that seems to apply well to Musk. The proof that Elon cares about wealth is that he keeps doing everything in his power to gain more of it (well, up until recently, but only because he found he can access power directly instead of indirectly through more wealth).