4 ms·

Every device you let in is another attack surface, and no certification process can eliminate it. Allowing devices to view and respond to messages is inherent

by Retric 2y ago

Every device you let in is another attack surface, and no certification process can eliminate it. Allowing devices to view and respond to messages is inherently lower risk than allowing them to freely communicate with anyone.

AndrewHart 2y ago
You could say the same about software and app stores. If safety were the top priority, then the safest option is to say no apps, but that isn't competitive or lucrative. Apple's approach is to create safe frameworks and a review process that allows the App Store to exist.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  They're likely to be regulated into allowing third party app stores with review processes that they don't control.
- gnopgnip 2y ago
  What third party apps can see notifications and send via iMessage?
- godelski 2y ago
  I just want to add that over the last few years Apple has also been teaching its users to ignore security warnings as they make it difficult to verify software and thus lots of stuff never does. Its why there's few free things in the App Store because Apple charges. You install things from GitHub and well you're gonna get that security warning.
  - musicale 2y ago
    I assume you're talking about the Mac App Store since one can't easily install iOS software via github. It's a tricky situation. Windows Vista tried to improve security and then was criticized for having too many UAC pop-ups, and for breaking legacy drivers. I don't like Apple's syspolicyd, but it is also an attempt at improving security.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      Poor security implementations harm security, because they train users to click through them. It’s certainly an “attempt” but I wouldn’t say it improves security.
    - godelski 2y ago
      I'm talking about MacBooks. Sure, this is about iPhones but it's also about a closed garden and other devices in that closed garden which are very likely to also be owned are teaching people a very specific lesson
tapland 2y ago
You could argue for only allowing communication through selected carriers, or connections to selected brand computers, and connecting to selected manufacturer Wi-Fi hotspots too
tremon 2y ago
You do realize this is a very infantilizing attitude? Why can't the end user choose its own level of security vs usability? Letting a corporation decide this for all users is just creating a nanny state in different clothing.
- Zak 2y ago
  While I agree with you (I daily a rooted Android phone), anyone who cleaned up a few Windows machines for non-technical people 20 years ago probably at least understands where Apple is coming from. The average person is really bad at system administration, and it doesn't take many bad actors creating malware and scams to have a big impact.
  - The_Blade 2y ago
    > The average person is really bad at system administration the average person doesn't even understand the basic concept of what the average HN reader considers system administration, and we're wrong anyway eh
  - seec 2y ago
    It's not really about system administration. The average person is a low effort moron who will do whatever he pleases without thinking about the consequences. The difference with computing is that since it's "new" and sometimes it has bugs, they will blame the hardware/OS any chance they get.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      Just like your comment was not really about providing anything new, but insulting people who use technology?
      - seec 2y ago
        Have you done a lot of tech support for people? If not, you really don't know the extent of it. It's not insulting, it's just how people are. You should meet the guy who had a lot of issues on his MacBook Pro, related to low storage left (barely a few gigs) that was entirely due to his extremely large porn collection. When asked about it, he doesn't have too many files. What do you do in that case? Isn't he a moron both for storing so much porn and at the same time (somehow) believing a tech support person wouldn't find the root of the problem. It was in a "hidden" folder, so not only he is a moron for the first offense, but doubly so for thinking a competent person wouldn't find something so obvious. So, I reiterate, most people are morons, and technology just reveals their ineptitude in plain sight, it's simple as that. You are free to believe in your idealized version of the world, but it doesn't match my experience at all.
presentation 2y ago
Yeah, but while Apple might consider the hardware to be "untrusted", at some point I trust the hardware I bought. Apple telling me I cannot decide what devices are trusted or not is annoying.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

by Retric 2y ago

AndrewHart 2y ago

You could say the same about software and app stores. If safety were the top priority, then the safest option is to say no apps, but that isn't competitive or lucrative. Apple's approach is to create safe frameworks and a review process that allows the App Store to exist.

robertlagrant 2y ago
They're likely to be regulated into allowing third party app stores with review processes that they don't control.
gnopgnip 2y ago
What third party apps can see notifications and send via iMessage?
godelski 2y ago
I just want to add that over the last few years Apple has also been teaching its users to ignore security warnings as they make it difficult to verify software and thus lots of stuff never does. Its why there's few free things in the App Store because Apple charges. You install things from GitHub and well you're gonna get that security warning.
- musicale 2y ago
  I assume you're talking about the Mac App Store since one can't easily install iOS software via github. It's a tricky situation. Windows Vista tried to improve security and then was criticized for having too many UAC pop-ups, and for breaking legacy drivers. I don't like Apple's syspolicyd, but it is also an attempt at improving security.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    Poor security implementations harm security, because they train users to click through them. It’s certainly an “attempt” but I wouldn’t say it improves security.
  - godelski 2y ago
    I'm talking about MacBooks. Sure, this is about iPhones but it's also about a closed garden and other devices in that closed garden which are very likely to also be owned are teaching people a very specific lesson

tapland 2y ago

You could argue for only allowing communication through selected carriers, or connections to selected brand computers, and connecting to selected manufacturer Wi-Fi hotspots too

tremon 2y ago

You do realize this is a very infantilizing attitude? Why can't the end user choose its own level of security vs usability? Letting a corporation decide this for all users is just creating a nanny state in different clothing.

Zak 2y ago
While I agree with you (I daily a rooted Android phone), anyone who cleaned up a few Windows machines for non-technical people 20 years ago probably at least understands where Apple is coming from. The average person is really bad at system administration, and it doesn't take many bad actors creating malware and scams to have a big impact.
- The_Blade 2y ago
  > The average person is really bad at system administration the average person doesn't even understand the basic concept of what the average HN reader considers system administration, and we're wrong anyway eh
- seec 2y ago
  It's not really about system administration. The average person is a low effort moron who will do whatever he pleases without thinking about the consequences. The difference with computing is that since it's "new" and sometimes it has bugs, they will blame the hardware/OS any chance they get.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    Just like your comment was not really about providing anything new, but insulting people who use technology?
    - seec 2y ago
      Have you done a lot of tech support for people? If not, you really don't know the extent of it. It's not insulting, it's just how people are. You should meet the guy who had a lot of issues on his MacBook Pro, related to low storage left (barely a few gigs) that was entirely due to his extremely large porn collection. When asked about it, he doesn't have too many files. What do you do in that case? Isn't he a moron both for storing so much porn and at the same time (somehow) believing a tech support person wouldn't find the root of the problem. It was in a "hidden" folder, so not only he is a moron for the first offense, but doubly so for thinking a competent person wouldn't find something so obvious. So, I reiterate, most people are morons, and technology just reveals their ineptitude in plain sight, it's simple as that. You are free to believe in your idealized version of the world, but it doesn't match my experience at all.

presentation 2y ago

Yeah, but while Apple might consider the hardware to be "untrusted", at some point I trust the hardware I bought. Apple telling me I cannot decide what devices are trusted or not is annoying.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]