6 ms·

I believe this is possible because of how the AT Protocol works. Bluesky shows a warning[1] on these posts and displays both times, but sorts them by the backda

by jer0me 2y ago

I believe this is possible because of how the AT Protocol works. Bluesky shows a warning[1] on these posts and displays both times, but sorts them by the backdated time. [1]: https://bsky.app/profile/bluemigrate.com/post/3lc3r4fqen62l https://bsky.app/profile/bluemigrate.com/post/3lc3r4fqen62l

dietr1ch 2y ago
It'd be cool if they also verified the dates to get rid of the warning of honest backdated posts.
- pimlottc 2y ago
  What constitutes an honest backdated post? How would they be able to verify it?
  - tough 2y ago
    they could fetch the post reference on x.com with the real date, and store a zkProof of its existance, relying the verfiability-trust then to x not messing with them
    - krainboltgreene 2y ago
      You going to donate your CPU for that? Only about a billion or ten tweets.
      - dietr1ch 2y ago
        You don't need to migrate everything, just getting the ones from users that migrated from twitter would help a lot seeding Bluesky profiles. You can also link Twitter to Bluesky with either OAuth, or a Twitter post with a Bluesky challenge to prove you have control of the account.
        pimlottc 2y ago
        That sounds like a lot of manual work, as I don’t expect Twitter to offer an API for departing users…
        rad_gruchalski 2y ago
        Not an API but if you're a departing user: https://www.theverge.com/23453703/twitter-archive-download-how-to-tweets https://www.theverge.com/23453703/twitter-archive-download-h.... Bottom line: it's possible to download all account history with tweets in JSON format with dates, and more.
        pimlottc 2y ago
        Sure, but now you're back to trust. Unless it's signed, which it doesn't sound like it is, anyone could fabricate their Twitter post history.
    - celticninja 2y ago
      Open a PR
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Or use the Wayback Machine? You can trust its captures, courts do. Queue archiving jobs per handle, backfill from the archives after the initial archiving request has completed. https://katharinabrunner.de/2024/02/archiving-websites-the-internet-archives-save-page-now-spn-api/ https://katharinabrunner.de/2024/02/archiving-websites-the-i... https://x.com/paulmcgorrery/status/1178561480385421312 https://x.com/paulmcgorrery/status/1178561480385421312 (Dyno Nobel Inc v Orica Explosives Technology Pty Ltd (no 2) [2019] FCA 1552) https://www.michbar.org/journal/Details/Old-websites-seldom-die-using-the-Wayback-Machine-in-litigation?ArticleID=4698 https://www.michbar.org/journal/Details/Old-websites-seldom-... https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/insights/legal/b/thought-leadership/posts/internet-archive-wayback-machine-helps-lawyers-go-back-in-time-to-strengthen-cases https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/insights/legal/b/though...
    - arcticbull 2y ago
      Wouldn't that require a very expensive API contract that X would be quite uninterested in signing?
    - pjc50 2y ago
      > they could fetch the post reference on x.com with the real date Twitter posts are only available to authenticated users, and the API is really quite expensive now - that was one of the many reasons people have wanted to move off it!
kurisufag 2y ago
nope. post here from 9/11 2001, no warning [0]. it's fine if they added a check recently to flag backdated posts, but there's no telling how many incorrectly-timed things went up before they added that ([0] is from about a year ago, fwiw). the whole early history of the platform is questionable, and it's just shoddy protocol design. [0] https://bsky.app/profile/lul4.bsky.social/post/3kgaesbxs7f25 https://bsky.app/profile/lul4.bsky.social/post/3kgaesbxs7f25 (if you work for bsky please don't add a flag to that, it's my favorite party trick)
- jer0me 2y ago
  Looking at the JSON data in dev tools, it looks like there are separate `createdAt` and `indexedAt` fields, the latter of which was probably a later addition. For your—likely pre-migration—post, both are set to 9/11. On more recent posts, they're separate dates.
  - extraduder_ire 2y ago
    That post does indeed predate bluesky tracking index times, I remember seeing it before they announced that change. I believe it was motivated by other migration services becoming popular. Forward-dating was fixed even earlier, I think, since it might allow people to "pin" their posts to the top of reverse-chronological feeds. Some of my favourite backdated posts are from the years 1776 and 1.
    - pfraze 2y ago
      More specifically the reason we didn’t have an index time for that post was an architectural migration which lost our prior witness times. That was pretty early on. At this point we’d take pains to preserve those timestamps, and I’m fairly sure we will need to publish them for other folks to use at some point
mayneack 2y ago
I think the reason it works that way is because they want strong guarantees for the future portability of your skeets. It's sort of a correction for Mastodon's reliance on server admins' goodwill.
- Forgeties79 2y ago
  >skeets I’m cackling over here. How have I never heard this when people talk about blue sky?
  - OrsonSmelles 2y ago
    To the windoooooooooooooooooooow....
    - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
      Surely this is what he was talking about. Lil John was decades ahead of his time.
    - cookiemonsieur 2y ago
      A Lil Jon reference on a HN thread about Bluesky was most definitely not on my 2025 bingo card. But I'll take it.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - nextts 2y ago
        Talking of "Jon" and "Skeet", there is a fairly well known programmer called Jon Skeet. If you are a C# developer good chance he has answered you stack overflow question!
        miroljub 2y ago
        If you are a bit older, you'd remember the same guy fighting for Java in bloody flame wars against C and C++ on Usenet. When I first saw him as a C# devotee on Stack Overflow, I was surprised it's the same guy.
nidnogg 2y ago
Very nice.

by jer0me 2y ago

dietr1ch 2y ago

It'd be cool if they also verified the dates to get rid of the warning of honest backdated posts.

pimlottc 2y ago
What constitutes an honest backdated post? How would they be able to verify it?
- tough 2y ago
  they could fetch the post reference on x.com with the real date, and store a zkProof of its existance, relying the verfiability-trust then to x not messing with them
  - krainboltgreene 2y ago
    You going to donate your CPU for that? Only about a billion or ten tweets.
    - dietr1ch 2y ago
      You don't need to migrate everything, just getting the ones from users that migrated from twitter would help a lot seeding Bluesky profiles. You can also link Twitter to Bluesky with either OAuth, or a Twitter post with a Bluesky challenge to prove you have control of the account.
      - pimlottc 2y ago
        That sounds like a lot of manual work, as I don’t expect Twitter to offer an API for departing users…
        rad_gruchalski 2y ago
        Not an API but if you're a departing user: https://www.theverge.com/23453703/twitter-archive-download-how-to-tweets https://www.theverge.com/23453703/twitter-archive-download-h.... Bottom line: it's possible to download all account history with tweets in JSON format with dates, and more.
        pimlottc 2y ago
        Sure, but now you're back to trust. Unless it's signed, which it doesn't sound like it is, anyone could fabricate their Twitter post history.
  - celticninja 2y ago
    Open a PR
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Or use the Wayback Machine? You can trust its captures, courts do. Queue archiving jobs per handle, backfill from the archives after the initial archiving request has completed. https://katharinabrunner.de/2024/02/archiving-websites-the-internet-archives-save-page-now-spn-api/ https://katharinabrunner.de/2024/02/archiving-websites-the-i... https://x.com/paulmcgorrery/status/1178561480385421312 https://x.com/paulmcgorrery/status/1178561480385421312 (Dyno Nobel Inc v Orica Explosives Technology Pty Ltd (no 2) [2019] FCA 1552) https://www.michbar.org/journal/Details/Old-websites-seldom-die-using-the-Wayback-Machine-in-litigation?ArticleID=4698 https://www.michbar.org/journal/Details/Old-websites-seldom-... https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/insights/legal/b/thought-leadership/posts/internet-archive-wayback-machine-helps-lawyers-go-back-in-time-to-strengthen-cases https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/insights/legal/b/though...
  - arcticbull 2y ago
    Wouldn't that require a very expensive API contract that X would be quite uninterested in signing?
  - pjc50 2y ago
    > they could fetch the post reference on x.com with the real date Twitter posts are only available to authenticated users, and the API is really quite expensive now - that was one of the many reasons people have wanted to move off it!

kurisufag 2y ago

nope. post here from 9/11 2001, no warning [0]. it's fine if they added a check recently to flag backdated posts, but there's no telling how many incorrectly-timed things went up before they added that ([0] is from about a year ago, fwiw). the whole early history of the platform is questionable, and it's just shoddy protocol design. [0] https://bsky.app/profile/lul4.bsky.social/post/3kgaesbxs7f25 https://bsky.app/profile/lul4.bsky.social/post/3kgaesbxs7f25 (if you work for bsky please don't add a flag to that, it's my favorite party trick)

jer0me 2y ago
Looking at the JSON data in dev tools, it looks like there are separate `createdAt` and `indexedAt` fields, the latter of which was probably a later addition. For your—likely pre-migration—post, both are set to 9/11. On more recent posts, they're separate dates.
- extraduder_ire 2y ago
  That post does indeed predate bluesky tracking index times, I remember seeing it before they announced that change. I believe it was motivated by other migration services becoming popular. Forward-dating was fixed even earlier, I think, since it might allow people to "pin" their posts to the top of reverse-chronological feeds. Some of my favourite backdated posts are from the years 1776 and 1.
  - pfraze 2y ago
    More specifically the reason we didn’t have an index time for that post was an architectural migration which lost our prior witness times. That was pretty early on. At this point we’d take pains to preserve those timestamps, and I’m fairly sure we will need to publish them for other folks to use at some point

mayneack 2y ago

I think the reason it works that way is because they want strong guarantees for the future portability of your skeets. It's sort of a correction for Mastodon's reliance on server admins' goodwill.

Forgeties79 2y ago
>skeets I’m cackling over here. How have I never heard this when people talk about blue sky?
- OrsonSmelles 2y ago
  To the windoooooooooooooooooooow....
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    Surely this is what he was talking about. Lil John was decades ahead of his time.
  - cookiemonsieur 2y ago
    A Lil Jon reference on a HN thread about Bluesky was most definitely not on my 2025 bingo card. But I'll take it.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - nextts 2y ago
      Talking of "Jon" and "Skeet", there is a fairly well known programmer called Jon Skeet. If you are a C# developer good chance he has answered you stack overflow question!
      - miroljub 2y ago
        If you are a bit older, you'd remember the same guy fighting for Java in bloody flame wars against C and C++ on Usenet. When I first saw him as a C# devotee on Stack Overflow, I was surprised it's the same guy.

nidnogg 2y ago

Very nice.