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Equally good as career advice or dating advice. People are always surprised when I say that I’m an engineer (they usually guess I’m a professor, sometimes an a

Equally good as career advice or dating advice. People are always surprised when I say that I’m an engineer (they usually guess I’m a professor, sometimes an actor or comedian), and am often discretely asked, “why are you normal and easy to talk to, when every tech/computer guy at my business is an utter freak” More nerds should apply an engineering approach to “having a nice personality”. It’s a totally solvable problem — or, if you prefer, an attainable skill.

jgilias 2y ago
Yes! Exactly this. Many years ago I got this epiphany that “it’s just another kind of interface”. Specifically to me as a system. In this day and age I’m not even convinced anymore that I’m not actually just some kind of an elaborate fine-tuning layer running in a cluster somewhere, but that’s a whole another discussion!
mattgreenrocks 2y ago
> “why are you normal and easy to talk to, when every tech/computer guy at my business is an utter freak” Well, some people certainly have a judgment problem of their own (not referring to parent commenter here). > It’s a totally solvable problem — or, if you prefer, an attainable skill. The resistance to developing this trait is also telling and belies a lack of objectivity: if it's a weak point for you, then even a modest amount of effort and attention can help a significant amount. If you're not interested in doing the work, that's totally fine, just work/pay/ask to figure out what the relevant 20% is that gets you 80% there. I suspect it will be somewhat different for everyone. I feel like my charisma (feels like too strong a term for myself, but whatever) took a big leap once I became more comfortable with myself and learning to be okay with people not liking me. Still working on the last one but small increments help a lot. Once people perceive you don't need something from them without being stand-offish, they're often more open to you.
nico 2y ago
I know you have good intentions with your advice, and maybe it has come easy for you But for a lot of people, developing social skills and "a nice personality" has been a life-long struggle There is a big overlap in STEM with the autism spectrum, with ADHD, with anxiety and trauma, all of which make it very hard for people to "fit in" and develop social skills that come easily to neurotypical people So while I share your sentiment that soft skills are valuable and are worth developing. Please don't judge others for not doing so, and keep in mind that they might not even have the capacity to do it, even if they want to. They might also have had a really hard time their whole lives being judged and rejected by "normal people". Please have some extra empathy with them
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- throw4847285 2y ago
  Here is a "goofus and gallant" anecdote drawn from real experience. Goofus and Gallant are both on the autism spectrum, and tend to be blunt in ways that come off as rude. They are both very stubborn about what they consider high quality code, and guard their status as domain experts in particular technologies. Goofus gets incredibly defensive when they don't understand something. Goofus talks over people in meetings. Goofus is generally rude and hard to work with. Gallant wants people to understand what they understand. While blunt, Gallant is also patient in walking more junior engineers through their thinking. Gallant isn't quick to give praise, but gives it when earned. Gallant doesn't want to be the only person who understands how something works. These are based on several real people I've worked with, and the Gallants are some of my favorite coworkers. Bluntness might put some people off, but it doesn't bother me as long as the purpose of that bluntness is to connect with people. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, and everybody has a different brain, and maybe it's much harder for the Goofus for reasons I can't see. But I have encountered enough Gallants that I know it is possible for neurodiverse people to still be themselves AND kind and empathetic. I certainly hope it's true of myself, not that I always succeed.
globular-toast 2y ago
In my experience the unlikeable nerds are mostly negative people that talk a lot about what they don't like. Nobody likes anyone like that. The key is to frame everything as positive. Talk about what you do like. Don't talk about getting rid of things, talk about what you want to replace it with etc. I'm convinced this simple reframing from negative to positive would get these people 80% of the way there, and that's often enough.

jgilias 2y ago

Yes! Exactly this. Many years ago I got this epiphany that “it’s just another kind of interface”. Specifically to me as a system. In this day and age I’m not even convinced anymore that I’m not actually just some kind of an elaborate fine-tuning layer running in a cluster somewhere, but that’s a whole another discussion!

mattgreenrocks 2y ago

> “why are you normal and easy to talk to, when every tech/computer guy at my business is an utter freak” Well, some people certainly have a judgment problem of their own (not referring to parent commenter here). > It’s a totally solvable problem — or, if you prefer, an attainable skill. The resistance to developing this trait is also telling and belies a lack of objectivity: if it's a weak point for you, then even a modest amount of effort and attention can help a significant amount. If you're not interested in doing the work, that's totally fine, just work/pay/ask to figure out what the relevant 20% is that gets you 80% there. I suspect it will be somewhat different for everyone. I feel like my charisma (feels like too strong a term for myself, but whatever) took a big leap once I became more comfortable with myself and learning to be okay with people not liking me. Still working on the last one but small increments help a lot. Once people perceive you don't need something from them without being stand-offish, they're often more open to you.

nico 2y ago

I know you have good intentions with your advice, and maybe it has come easy for you But for a lot of people, developing social skills and "a nice personality" has been a life-long struggle There is a big overlap in STEM with the autism spectrum, with ADHD, with anxiety and trauma, all of which make it very hard for people to "fit in" and develop social skills that come easily to neurotypical people So while I share your sentiment that soft skills are valuable and are worth developing. Please don't judge others for not doing so, and keep in mind that they might not even have the capacity to do it, even if they want to. They might also have had a really hard time their whole lives being judged and rejected by "normal people". Please have some extra empathy with them

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
throw4847285 2y ago
Here is a "goofus and gallant" anecdote drawn from real experience. Goofus and Gallant are both on the autism spectrum, and tend to be blunt in ways that come off as rude. They are both very stubborn about what they consider high quality code, and guard their status as domain experts in particular technologies. Goofus gets incredibly defensive when they don't understand something. Goofus talks over people in meetings. Goofus is generally rude and hard to work with. Gallant wants people to understand what they understand. While blunt, Gallant is also patient in walking more junior engineers through their thinking. Gallant isn't quick to give praise, but gives it when earned. Gallant doesn't want to be the only person who understands how something works. These are based on several real people I've worked with, and the Gallants are some of my favorite coworkers. Bluntness might put some people off, but it doesn't bother me as long as the purpose of that bluntness is to connect with people. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, and everybody has a different brain, and maybe it's much harder for the Goofus for reasons I can't see. But I have encountered enough Gallants that I know it is possible for neurodiverse people to still be themselves AND kind and empathetic. I certainly hope it's true of myself, not that I always succeed.

globular-toast 2y ago

In my experience the unlikeable nerds are mostly negative people that talk a lot about what they don't like. Nobody likes anyone like that. The key is to frame everything as positive. Talk about what you do like. Don't talk about getting rid of things, talk about what you want to replace it with etc. I'm convinced this simple reframing from negative to positive would get these people 80% of the way there, and that's often enough.