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Lol, you're asking for it by using apple. I'm still recommending Apple to family members (less support needed from me, and I can always say I have Android and

Lol, you're asking for it by using apple. I'm still recommending Apple to family members (less support needed from me, and I can always say I have Android and can't use apple so I can't help). But you have to go all in. If you want non apple stuff, just use something else. And if you can use Linux etc., why are you using Apple? Other then being lazy, which is totally ok.

infecto 2y ago
I guess you could call it lazy, I value my time and have zero desire to tinker with the daily products I use. I am sure some enjoy it but I do not.
- layer8 2y ago
  And GP is saying that that’s totally okay.
  - infecto 2y ago
    I am saying folks who use Linux do not know how to utilize their time well. It’s tongue in cheek at the commentary to the GP but hope that makes more sense to you.
    - consteval 2y ago
      People say this about Linux but it’s not been my experience. Granted I’m 10 years deep now, but everything just works always and is exactly how I like it. Even basic things like menus changing doesn’t happen on Debian. I’m good to go. Windows? Provided it doesn’t shit the bed, which it often does, things change randomly for no reason and beyond your control. One day you boot up and boom - the UI for x, y, z is different. And there goes 10 hours spread over the next month while you relearn. iOS is fairly decent about this too.
    - bigyabai 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - infecto 2y ago
        Stop taking things so seriously and understand my comment was playful as I already indicated. It was more of a jab at usage of lazy but not in critical way. Don’t be so critical over a tongue in cheek comment and don’t be so defensive over your choice of inferior products.
    - _emacsomancer_ 2y ago
      It happens that lots of people who use Linux like to mess around with things, and, from a certain perspective, that's a waste of time. (But can be enjoyable.) But it's perfectly possible to just use Linux and not muck around. Or, at least, to spend less time unwillingly mucking around than one would elsewhere. (E.g., EndeavourOS, which is, perhaps unexpectedly/ironically, more or less just Arch with a nice installer and a welcome screen, is one of the easiest OSes to deal with. [Maybe not completely unexpectedly, SteamOS is also a customised Arch.] It's not the exciting distro, or the one I'm most likely to talk a lot about; but see the first point.)
matheusmoreira 2y ago
> Other then being lazy, which is totally ok. It's not OK. This collective laziness and convenience is our number one enemy. People don't want to be responsible, they want some corporation to manage everything so they don't have to think about stuff. We need more people to take responsibility and use Linux and free software and hardware. Owning the computing system means being responsible for it, and we need to get people to accept that responsibility. The less of us there are, the more business and financial sense it makes for them to just straight up ignore us as some irrelevant vocal minority. We should all own our computers, and there should be so many of us that they have to suck it up because not doing so means they take a big hit to their profits.
- joshstrange 2y ago
  This is such an incredibly HN take. What are you seeing in the world that would led you to think the average Joe can use Linux without someone like us supporting them? Maybe not day to day but they are absolutely going to run into pain points like “Netflix is low quality” or “I need to install this windows app for this new gizmo I bought”. It’s a fantasy world that Linux desktop is good enough for most people, it just is. I love Linux and use it on all my servers but come on.
  - consteval 2y ago
    It’s not a fantasy, we were there at some point and we deliberately moved from it. When Unix was the norm, everyday employees knew how to navigate a shell. In highschool I had a friend working at the bank. You know what she did all day? Ran SQL queries to make reports. No degree. She wasn’t a programmer. She was a financial analyst. Now we have people constructing database systems in an excel workbook on a share drive somewhere, but even that’s fading. Now we have people creating systems in Discord and spending 20 hours a week moving data from point A to point B. Tasks that someone 20 years ago could trivially automate. They don’t know how anymore. We have lawyers paying 20 paralegals to maintain and consolidate a document shared between 10 parties with 50 revisions floating around. We’ve had version control for decades. They refuse to learn. They would rather spend the enormous amounts of man hours doing what is essentially manual labor. It’s clear that computers are a huge part of our lives. You can learn to use them or you can burn hours - but you can’t opt out. I mean, Jesus Christ kids these days don’t know what a directory is. We had a short window of computer literate everyday people and then poof! Gone! But the need for computers is still here. And we can’t quite talk to them and tell them what to do yet.
_emacsomancer_ 2y ago
Don't recommend Apple if you know better. Not everybody does know better. You can just say that you don't have enough time or spoons to do free tech support.

infecto 2y ago

I guess you could call it lazy, I value my time and have zero desire to tinker with the daily products I use. I am sure some enjoy it but I do not.

layer8 2y ago
And GP is saying that that’s totally okay.
- infecto 2y ago
  I am saying folks who use Linux do not know how to utilize their time well. It’s tongue in cheek at the commentary to the GP but hope that makes more sense to you.
  - consteval 2y ago
    People say this about Linux but it’s not been my experience. Granted I’m 10 years deep now, but everything just works always and is exactly how I like it. Even basic things like menus changing doesn’t happen on Debian. I’m good to go. Windows? Provided it doesn’t shit the bed, which it often does, things change randomly for no reason and beyond your control. One day you boot up and boom - the UI for x, y, z is different. And there goes 10 hours spread over the next month while you relearn. iOS is fairly decent about this too.
  - bigyabai 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - infecto 2y ago
      Stop taking things so seriously and understand my comment was playful as I already indicated. It was more of a jab at usage of lazy but not in critical way. Don’t be so critical over a tongue in cheek comment and don’t be so defensive over your choice of inferior products.
  - _emacsomancer_ 2y ago
    It happens that lots of people who use Linux like to mess around with things, and, from a certain perspective, that's a waste of time. (But can be enjoyable.) But it's perfectly possible to just use Linux and not muck around. Or, at least, to spend less time unwillingly mucking around than one would elsewhere. (E.g., EndeavourOS, which is, perhaps unexpectedly/ironically, more or less just Arch with a nice installer and a welcome screen, is one of the easiest OSes to deal with. [Maybe not completely unexpectedly, SteamOS is also a customised Arch.] It's not the exciting distro, or the one I'm most likely to talk a lot about; but see the first point.)

matheusmoreira 2y ago

> Other then being lazy, which is totally ok. It's not OK. This collective laziness and convenience is our number one enemy. People don't want to be responsible, they want some corporation to manage everything so they don't have to think about stuff. We need more people to take responsibility and use Linux and free software and hardware. Owning the computing system means being responsible for it, and we need to get people to accept that responsibility. The less of us there are, the more business and financial sense it makes for them to just straight up ignore us as some irrelevant vocal minority. We should all own our computers, and there should be so many of us that they have to suck it up because not doing so means they take a big hit to their profits.

joshstrange 2y ago
This is such an incredibly HN take. What are you seeing in the world that would led you to think the average Joe can use Linux without someone like us supporting them? Maybe not day to day but they are absolutely going to run into pain points like “Netflix is low quality” or “I need to install this windows app for this new gizmo I bought”. It’s a fantasy world that Linux desktop is good enough for most people, it just is. I love Linux and use it on all my servers but come on.
- consteval 2y ago
  It’s not a fantasy, we were there at some point and we deliberately moved from it. When Unix was the norm, everyday employees knew how to navigate a shell. In highschool I had a friend working at the bank. You know what she did all day? Ran SQL queries to make reports. No degree. She wasn’t a programmer. She was a financial analyst. Now we have people constructing database systems in an excel workbook on a share drive somewhere, but even that’s fading. Now we have people creating systems in Discord and spending 20 hours a week moving data from point A to point B. Tasks that someone 20 years ago could trivially automate. They don’t know how anymore. We have lawyers paying 20 paralegals to maintain and consolidate a document shared between 10 parties with 50 revisions floating around. We’ve had version control for decades. They refuse to learn. They would rather spend the enormous amounts of man hours doing what is essentially manual labor. It’s clear that computers are a huge part of our lives. You can learn to use them or you can burn hours - but you can’t opt out. I mean, Jesus Christ kids these days don’t know what a directory is. We had a short window of computer literate everyday people and then poof! Gone! But the need for computers is still here. And we can’t quite talk to them and tell them what to do yet.

_emacsomancer_ 2y ago

Don't recommend Apple if you know better. Not everybody does know better. You can just say that you don't have enough time or spoons to do free tech support.