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I think the author confuses simple likability for charisma. Charismatic people generally have a lot of likability, but not all likable people are charismatic.
by munificent 2y ago
I think the author confuses simple likability for charisma. Charismatic people generally have a lot of likability, but not all likable people are charismatic.
Charismatic people aren't just able to get people to like them, they are able to persuade people to adopt their viewpoint. When someone charismatic wants X to happen, you find yourself also wanting X to happen.
This distinction matters, because the easy path to likability is agreeability: simply do what the people around you want you to do. They'll all like you, which is definitely valuable. But it won't necessarily get you closer to your goals.
Charisma, which is a quite rare trait, has a special balance of likeability and dis-agreeability, where people will get on board with your plan and feel good doing it. It's the ability to increase their agreeability.
- ge96 2y agoDifferent than gaslighting? One is not with malice?
- johnnyanmac 2y agoGaslighting usually has you believing falsehoods. But yes, a charismatic person can empower you to be a better person on one extreme, or convince you you are worthless that on the other extreme.
- AStonesThrow 2y ago> better person on one extreme, or convince you you are worthless that on the other extreme Or to recast this positively, if humility is a virtue and arrogance/vainglory is deadly, then knowing and accepting that we are powerless/unworthy is perhaps the most important step on the journey to "being a better person". The best leaders are the ones who've learned how to be servants and followers.
- dns_snek 2y agoGaslighting is an intentional act of lying and manipulation.
- nh23423fefe 2y agoThe kids would say aura
- munificent 2y agoThe rizz.
- dmonitor 2y agoslang for charisma, no?
- MiscCompFacts 2y agoYes, the word rizz comes directly from ka-RIZZ-ma.
- AStonesThrow 2y agoFo' shizzle, mah nizzle! Hackernewz rizz in da hizz-ouse! https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/jive-filters https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/jive-filters Snoop Dogg schools Martha Stewart on essential vocabulary, and then they peel potatoes: https://youtu.be/PiAvfcfIzac?si=isNSE7KTQoiHuyT6 https://youtu.be/PiAvfcfIzac?si=isNSE7KTQoiHuyT6
- stronglikedan 2y agoyes, cha-rizz-ma
- jiveturkey 2y agocorrect but pedantic. would you say you satisfy the author's intent of demonstrating this skill? (whichever it is, likability or charisma) i would actually argue that your definition of charismatic tends towards manipulative. i don't think that's what you really meant.
- munificent 2y ago> would you say you satisfy the author's intent of demonstrating this skill? I think I'm pretty likable in large part because I have a lot of social anxiety which leads to high agreeability. I don't think I'm particularly charismatic. > i would actually argue that your definition of charismatic tends towards manipulative. i don't think that's what you really meant. It is, in fact. Charisma operates at a level separate from morality. Charisma is a gun. It's what you do with it that determines the ethical stance. Certainly, there are many charismatic people that use that tool simply to manipulate others for their own personal benefit. At the extreme you get populist demagogues. But there are also charismatic people who use that gift to bring others together to accomplish goals that benefit everyone. Good charismatic people can make you into a better version of yourself.
- tengbretson 2y ago> i would actually argue that your definition of charismatic tends towards manipulative All team endeavors require some kind of consensus-forming. In my experience, strong, charismatic leadership is significantly preferable to a bunch of nerds engaging in dialectics.
- hluska 2y agoManipulation and charisma are different concepts. There are plenty of highly charismatic manipulative people, just as there are many highly manipulative people with absolutely no charisma. Charisma may make it easier to manipulate people or it may create an environment where you don’t need to manipulate people to form a consensus.
- karmakaze 2y agoI had lots of this when I was starting my career. As far as I could tell, it was some combination of being seen as very sharp, energetic, quirky, and most of all enthusiastic in a vision and enjoying every minute working toward it. After getting back from some OS/2 developer course at Redmond, I accidentally got a mainframe COBOL ERP software company to turning a pet side project into effectively a Visual Basic for OS/2. It did have a COBOL generator back-end though so they could sell to existing customers. The company's profits declined as it alienated existing customers that were paying large support contracts.
- lanstin 2y agoAnd I really don't think charisma is teachable, but it is extremely useful, and weirdly real (in that one can be persuaded of things one doesn't actually believe and not really understand how you are agreeing even as you agree) (source: married to a very charismatic but also fairly selfish person for ~20 years, also worked with fairly charismatic bosses).
- munificent 2y ago> and weirdly real (in that one can be persuaded of things one doesn't actually believe and not really understand how you are agreeing even as you agree) Yeah, it's fascinating if you've never been in the presence of someone with a lot of charisma. It really does feel like they're hacking your primitive primate brain or something.
- matthewdgreen 2y agoIt can also produce a creepy feeling if you’ve had past bad experiences with similar people. My pet theory is that this is why so many polarizing figures are able to get equal numbers of devoted followers and also people who despise them: it’s almost like a disease that produces a population that has “immunity.”
- wenc 2y agoIt is learnable. Check Olivia Fox Cabane’s book The Charisma Myth. I’ve read this and found about 30-40% of it to be implementable and a percent of that have positive outcomes.
- spidersenses 2y agoAlthough I enjoyed reading her book and found most of the information plausible, I always found it strange that the author herself seems so uncharismatic, especially given her claim that charisma can be learned. The same goes for Robert Greene, author of "The 48 Laws of Power," "The Art of Seduction," and several other books. I've watched a few interviews with him, and he strikes me as completely unremarkable, uncharismatic, and rather unconvincing, which makes me doubt the validity of his books' promises.
- agalunar 2y agoAt some point in my life I unconsciously decided that charisma (in this sense) was something I did not want to exercise, and was perhaps even wrong to exercise. In so many facets of our lives already, our wants are being manipulated for the benefit of others. And who am I to decide what is important? For things that involve other people, I’d rather make that decision collectively. I want the thoughts, opinions, and feelings of people who don’t possess or exercise charisma to have space and weight.
- mncharity 2y agoI was struck by another comment calling the feedback loop a "virtuous cycle". Early-elementary-school me found it disturbingly weird and an unwanted responsibility for others' choices. Consciously resolved by "I'm so not doing this thing anymore". Perhaps styles of leadership might be taught early, so there's greater awareness of possibilities/alternatives?
- AStonesThrow 2y agoThere's that subtle art of "make sure that him/her believes it was his/her idea to do it." If you go up to someone and directly ask for something, or ask something of an audience in a group, and they feel "solicited" and put on-the-spot, it's one thing; if you can plant ideas and lead people to know what they should do, they'll simply take action when they realize that the time is right, rather than receiving that "Call To Action".