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Whoa didn't see this! What's the language you're referring to? I only saw the part about how either side can cancel without penalty and didn't read a threat of

Whoa didn't see this! What's the language you're referring to? I only saw the part about how either side can cancel without penalty and didn't read a threat of higher pricing into that bit.

diggan 2y ago
> If tariffs change dramatically, we will pass these costs along to you and require further payment, even for US orders. Under the "What if the tariff situation changes?" section on https://store.repebble.com/ https://store.repebble.com/ I was excited and about to purchase one until I saw this "We might not ship the device unless you pay us more" thing. I get that the economy is very up in the air right now in the US, but sucks that seemingly ordinary businesses are losing international business because of it.
- ryukafalz 2y ago
  That reads to me as what they'll do if the import tariff situation changes, not if the company changes the price themselves. Which seems like a reasonable thing to say given the massive uncertainty around US economic policy at the moment.
  - diggan 2y ago
    Fair, and you're probably right. I've personally learned to be very cautious when it comes to statements like that though. There has already been additional tariffs, and since it isn't exactly defined, they could raise the price tomorrow based on that, "because it wasn't taken into account at the time" and so on. Better to just wait until the whole drama blows over I suppose.
  - radlad 2y ago
    I think it's reasonable too, but it also means I don't want to pony up $150 now to potentially have the seller renege and (hopefully) refund me later. I can make use that $150 between then and now.
    - c22 2y ago
      By that logic the watch is a non-essential luxury good so you probably should use the $150 you have now in a more productive manner regardless of potential futures.
      - dreadlordbone 2y ago
        This is dumb. You could argue this for any non-essential purpose. Why even say it?
      - radlad 2y ago
        I am not sure I understand you. It's true, I generally prefer not to preorder as it means I'm essentially offering an interest-free loan to a company. Sometimes I'll do it anyway for one of two reasons: to lock in a price that may increase later, or to receive an item earlier than I would otherwise, due to excessive demand.
        c22 2y ago
        I'm just saying that, at least to my sensibilities, the viewpoint that leads one to be concerned about maximizing the efficiency of 150 bucks over the next 4-5 months seems incompatible with the viewpoint that it would be reasonable to spend $150 on this watch at all. But I recognize that everyone's a snowflake, so you do you.
    - mystified5016 2y ago
      That's a problem you should take up with the US government instead of small businesses trying to survive this administration
      - chgs 2y ago
        A lot of people on HN whine “oh I’m not picking a side” and “I just want to get on with my life” and “I’m an island what others do doesn’t affect me” and other nonsense. Sadly the damage these people are causing by their implicit support for the end of the modern world won’t fix the problem when America realises it’s making itself poorer, history shows countries double down.
- jaapz 2y ago
  Sounds reasonable considering the unpredictable worldwide trading situation
- apparent 2y ago
  It's good of them to consider this and be transparent, but I don't consider tariffs to be part of the price. The price is the amount the seller gets, not the amount they collect and remit to the government.
  - radlad 2y ago
    As a consumer, the price is whatever I have to pay to receive the product. You seem to be confusing it with revenue.
    - apparent 2y ago
      I think "price" is an imprecise term that could refer to the pre-tax/tariff amount or the post-tax/tariff amount. It would include shipping, if there is no other way to get the device (as is the case here). But regardless, they're not saying they would increase the "price" (whatever that means), but just that if the tariff situation changes, then the customer will need to pay the additional tariff. This is the same as what would happen if a state increased the sales tax rate and they had to collect and remit additional sales tax. It just so happens that it's unlikely any state is going to sharply increase its sales tax in the next year, but there's a decent chance the tariff rate will jump. If the sales tax went up, I wouldn't consider that to be the company raising the price. Same for tariffs, in my book.
      - radlad 2y ago
        The difference between sales tax and a tariff is that the consumer pays the sales tax while the importer pays the tariff. In other words, I'm not presented with a "price + taxes + tariff." I'm presented with a "price + taxes" where the price is supposed to bake in the seller's costs (which may include tariffs) and a margin of profit. Likewise, if the price increases to allow for additional tariffs, I will also pay more in taxes.
        andrewaylett 2y ago
        And then you've got VAT, which yes it's the consumer's money that's going to paying it, but the headline price for consumers is the VAT inclusive price and the retailer (or importer, who may sometimes be a consumer) is responsible for paying. Which means that in high-profile cases where the VAT rate is disputed, it's the retailer who is on the hook for the disputed amount. Recent examples being Greggs (a baker, who won their case, so no tax payable) and Uber (where I'm not actually sure whether it's finalised yet? But if they end up needing to pay VAT then it's going to be expensive).
- nottorp 2y ago
  Funny, aren't you USers used to not knowing what you'll pay for something because the advertised prices don't include sales taxes and administrative fees and whatever fees and service charges and tips that are not service charges?
  - hombre_fatal 2y ago
    No, those questions are answered at point of sale in the US like when you click a Checkout button or you're at the cash register. Prices changing after a preorder is completely different and not anything US specific.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      Well in europe letting me know what the real price is only at the cash register and not when I check out the product in the store is as unusual as your problem with import duties :) I think it may even be illegal for consumer prices. What they display or list in the contract is what you pay. But on the other hand I'm used to paying import taxes separately when ordering something from outside the EU.
      - hombre_fatal 2y ago
        Yes, Americans don't know the exact price of the products in their cart between the 10min they put the items in their cart and when they check out. They know it will be a little more and they mentally budget for it. But that doesn't have much to do with a price increasing weeks or months after paying for a preorder.
        nottorp 2y ago
        So you can mentally separate the price the vendor charges from taxes imposed by the state when you pick up in the store but not when ordering internationally?
        vel0city 2y ago

Whoa didn't see this! What's the language you're referring to? I only saw the part about how either side can cancel without penalty and didn't read a threat of higher pricing into that bit.

diggan 2y ago

> If tariffs change dramatically, we will pass these costs along to you and require further payment, even for US orders. Under the "What if the tariff situation changes?" section on https://store.repebble.com/ https://store.repebble.com/ I was excited and about to purchase one until I saw this "We might not ship the device unless you pay us more" thing. I get that the economy is very up in the air right now in the US, but sucks that seemingly ordinary businesses are losing international business because of it.

ryukafalz 2y ago
That reads to me as what they'll do if the import tariff situation changes, not if the company changes the price themselves. Which seems like a reasonable thing to say given the massive uncertainty around US economic policy at the moment.
- diggan 2y ago
  Fair, and you're probably right. I've personally learned to be very cautious when it comes to statements like that though. There has already been additional tariffs, and since it isn't exactly defined, they could raise the price tomorrow based on that, "because it wasn't taken into account at the time" and so on. Better to just wait until the whole drama blows over I suppose.
- radlad 2y ago
  I think it's reasonable too, but it also means I don't want to pony up $150 now to potentially have the seller renege and (hopefully) refund me later. I can make use that $150 between then and now.
  - c22 2y ago
    By that logic the watch is a non-essential luxury good so you probably should use the $150 you have now in a more productive manner regardless of potential futures.
    - dreadlordbone 2y ago
      This is dumb. You could argue this for any non-essential purpose. Why even say it?
    - radlad 2y ago
      I am not sure I understand you. It's true, I generally prefer not to preorder as it means I'm essentially offering an interest-free loan to a company. Sometimes I'll do it anyway for one of two reasons: to lock in a price that may increase later, or to receive an item earlier than I would otherwise, due to excessive demand.
      - c22 2y ago
        I'm just saying that, at least to my sensibilities, the viewpoint that leads one to be concerned about maximizing the efficiency of 150 bucks over the next 4-5 months seems incompatible with the viewpoint that it would be reasonable to spend $150 on this watch at all. But I recognize that everyone's a snowflake, so you do you.
  - mystified5016 2y ago
    That's a problem you should take up with the US government instead of small businesses trying to survive this administration
    - chgs 2y ago
      A lot of people on HN whine “oh I’m not picking a side” and “I just want to get on with my life” and “I’m an island what others do doesn’t affect me” and other nonsense. Sadly the damage these people are causing by their implicit support for the end of the modern world won’t fix the problem when America realises it’s making itself poorer, history shows countries double down.
jaapz 2y ago
Sounds reasonable considering the unpredictable worldwide trading situation
apparent 2y ago
It's good of them to consider this and be transparent, but I don't consider tariffs to be part of the price. The price is the amount the seller gets, not the amount they collect and remit to the government.
- radlad 2y ago
  As a consumer, the price is whatever I have to pay to receive the product. You seem to be confusing it with revenue.
  - apparent 2y ago
    I think "price" is an imprecise term that could refer to the pre-tax/tariff amount or the post-tax/tariff amount. It would include shipping, if there is no other way to get the device (as is the case here). But regardless, they're not saying they would increase the "price" (whatever that means), but just that if the tariff situation changes, then the customer will need to pay the additional tariff. This is the same as what would happen if a state increased the sales tax rate and they had to collect and remit additional sales tax. It just so happens that it's unlikely any state is going to sharply increase its sales tax in the next year, but there's a decent chance the tariff rate will jump. If the sales tax went up, I wouldn't consider that to be the company raising the price. Same for tariffs, in my book.
    - radlad 2y ago
      The difference between sales tax and a tariff is that the consumer pays the sales tax while the importer pays the tariff. In other words, I'm not presented with a "price + taxes + tariff." I'm presented with a "price + taxes" where the price is supposed to bake in the seller's costs (which may include tariffs) and a margin of profit. Likewise, if the price increases to allow for additional tariffs, I will also pay more in taxes.
      - andrewaylett 2y ago
        And then you've got VAT, which yes it's the consumer's money that's going to paying it, but the headline price for consumers is the VAT inclusive price and the retailer (or importer, who may sometimes be a consumer) is responsible for paying. Which means that in high-profile cases where the VAT rate is disputed, it's the retailer who is on the hook for the disputed amount. Recent examples being Greggs (a baker, who won their case, so no tax payable) and Uber (where I'm not actually sure whether it's finalised yet? But if they end up needing to pay VAT then it's going to be expensive).
nottorp 2y ago
Funny, aren't you USers used to not knowing what you'll pay for something because the advertised prices don't include sales taxes and administrative fees and whatever fees and service charges and tips that are not service charges?
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  No, those questions are answered at point of sale in the US like when you click a Checkout button or you're at the cash register. Prices changing after a preorder is completely different and not anything US specific.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    Well in europe letting me know what the real price is only at the cash register and not when I check out the product in the store is as unusual as your problem with import duties :) I think it may even be illegal for consumer prices. What they display or list in the contract is what you pay. But on the other hand I'm used to paying import taxes separately when ordering something from outside the EU.
    - hombre_fatal 2y ago
      Yes, Americans don't know the exact price of the products in their cart between the 10min they put the items in their cart and when they check out. They know it will be a little more and they mentally budget for it. But that doesn't have much to do with a price increasing weeks or months after paying for a preorder.
      - nottorp 2y ago
        So you can mentally separate the price the vendor charges from taxes imposed by the state when you pick up in the store but not when ordering internationally?
        vel0city 2y ago