4 ms·

Is it a religious entity or part of a religious doctrine?

otterley 2y ago
The Mossad is a security service of the nation of Israel, which, for all intents and purposes, is a nation designed to house and protect Jews. And Judaism is a religion. So yes, a connection exists.
- FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
  Many Jews do not practice Judaism. Being Jewish is an ethnicity. Source: am Jewish, not religeous.
  - otterley 2y ago
    > Source: am Jewish, not religeous [sic]. Me too, but a lot of (admittedly not all) opposition to Israel's existence, extent, and its security apparatus is rooted in anti-semitism. I'm not going to undertake a long discussion about it, but in short, you can hear the dog whistles and they're inappropriate.
    - FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
      Of course... one side of my family goes way way back in the area. Great grandma was Irgun. Rest of the fam was Austro-Hungarian/Ottoman/Polish/Ukrainian/Russian depending on what decade you looked at. Empires borders kept moving. I think at one point we might even had been Italian (Trieste).
  - zerr 2y ago
    Did you try applying for Israeli citizenship? AFAIK being a follower of Judaism is a requirement. Source: a Christian Jew being denied a citizenship due to this reason.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
      No... it isn't (as there are 100s of thousands of Muslim, Christian, etc. citizens in Israel). I am assuming you are a foreign national and you are referring to the Law of Return. Currently, there is a prohibition on using that right and "professing" another religion. Blame the haredi, according to my granfather they're as*holes. You could get a visa and naturalize like anyone else that is eligible. I am eligible because my great grandmother was there before statehood in the Irgun.
  - reliabilityguy 2y ago
    Judaism is not only religion in a sense that you go to synagogue to pray. Being a jew is not only about religion but also about traditions, e.g., celebrating jewish holidays, teaching your kids about history of your people, etc. If you do nothing jewish, then I would argue that you are not jewish in a cultural sense. You still would be a jew from a religious point of view (if your mom is jewish), but if you do nothing jewish, then you are not jewish. I guess what I am trying to say is being jewish is not ethnicity only, or religion only, it's both. For example, converts are considered jews despite their non-jewish ethnicity.
    - FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
      Had a Jewish wedding and secular divorce, a few rabbis in the family on fathers side, went to Synagogue for a decade or so, haven't gone in a few decades. Don't really keep to most of the traditions. I'm ethnically Jewish and a big chunk of the family is also culturally Jewish with a smaller bit also religiously Jewish. Oddly the Israeli part of the family isn't religious at all (atheist) but follows more of the traditions because they live in a Jewish nation.
- alienthrowaway 2y ago
  Conflating the state of Israel with all Jewish people & implying all of have (a secret) allegiance to Israel, regardless of their citizenship is actual anti-Semitism. Correctly identifying folk who fought for Israel is not anti-Semitic in any way the allegiance at the time they served in an elite unit is clear to all.
  - otterley 2y ago
    You’re responding to an argument that I’m not making. I said there is a connection, which is true. Obviously not everyone living in Israel is Jewish, nor is everyone there a practicing Jew. But the founders’ purpose remains and is woven throughout society and its constitution. And people aren’t just “identifying folk.” This thread has devolved into a debate about Israel itself, which invariably happens when Israel is even tangentially involved in a story.
    - alienthrowaway 2y ago
      I am highlighting that the "connection" you mention is frequently used in bad faith by actual anti-semites, as well as the pro-Likud propagandists who suggest that any criticism of the government of Israel or its policies is antisemitism, as if the current government and Jewish people are interchangeable.

The Mossad is a security service of the nation of Israel, which, for all intents and purposes, is a nation designed to house and protect Jews. And Judaism is a religion. So yes, a connection exists.

FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
Many Jews do not practice Judaism. Being Jewish is an ethnicity. Source: am Jewish, not religeous.
- otterley 2y ago
  > Source: am Jewish, not religeous [sic]. Me too, but a lot of (admittedly not all) opposition to Israel's existence, extent, and its security apparatus is rooted in anti-semitism. I'm not going to undertake a long discussion about it, but in short, you can hear the dog whistles and they're inappropriate.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
    Of course... one side of my family goes way way back in the area. Great grandma was Irgun. Rest of the fam was Austro-Hungarian/Ottoman/Polish/Ukrainian/Russian depending on what decade you looked at. Empires borders kept moving. I think at one point we might even had been Italian (Trieste).
- zerr 2y ago
  Did you try applying for Israeli citizenship? AFAIK being a follower of Judaism is a requirement. Source: a Christian Jew being denied a citizenship due to this reason.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
    No... it isn't (as there are 100s of thousands of Muslim, Christian, etc. citizens in Israel). I am assuming you are a foreign national and you are referring to the Law of Return. Currently, there is a prohibition on using that right and "professing" another religion. Blame the haredi, according to my granfather they're as*holes. You could get a visa and naturalize like anyone else that is eligible. I am eligible because my great grandmother was there before statehood in the Irgun.
- reliabilityguy 2y ago
  Judaism is not only religion in a sense that you go to synagogue to pray. Being a jew is not only about religion but also about traditions, e.g., celebrating jewish holidays, teaching your kids about history of your people, etc. If you do nothing jewish, then I would argue that you are not jewish in a cultural sense. You still would be a jew from a religious point of view (if your mom is jewish), but if you do nothing jewish, then you are not jewish. I guess what I am trying to say is being jewish is not ethnicity only, or religion only, it's both. For example, converts are considered jews despite their non-jewish ethnicity.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
    Had a Jewish wedding and secular divorce, a few rabbis in the family on fathers side, went to Synagogue for a decade or so, haven't gone in a few decades. Don't really keep to most of the traditions. I'm ethnically Jewish and a big chunk of the family is also culturally Jewish with a smaller bit also religiously Jewish. Oddly the Israeli part of the family isn't religious at all (atheist) but follows more of the traditions because they live in a Jewish nation.
alienthrowaway 2y ago
Conflating the state of Israel with all Jewish people & implying all of have (a secret) allegiance to Israel, regardless of their citizenship is actual anti-Semitism. Correctly identifying folk who fought for Israel is not anti-Semitic in any way the allegiance at the time they served in an elite unit is clear to all.
- otterley 2y ago
  You’re responding to an argument that I’m not making. I said there is a connection, which is true. Obviously not everyone living in Israel is Jewish, nor is everyone there a practicing Jew. But the founders’ purpose remains and is woven throughout society and its constitution. And people aren’t just “identifying folk.” This thread has devolved into a debate about Israel itself, which invariably happens when Israel is even tangentially involved in a story.
  - alienthrowaway 2y ago
    I am highlighting that the "connection" you mention is frequently used in bad faith by actual anti-semites, as well as the pro-Likud propagandists who suggest that any criticism of the government of Israel or its policies is antisemitism, as if the current government and Jewish people are interchangeable.