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> Very small dogs are "safer" because any human can use force to overpower them, making any behavior a moot point. Yes! Thank you for summarizing half of my or

by radlad 2y ago

> Very small dogs are "safer" because any human can use force to overpower them, making any behavior a moot point. Yes! Thank you for summarizing half of my original comment. This is exactly right - larger, stronger dogs carry a higher risk because they are harder to overpower. That said, even small dogs can and do hurt vulnerable humans. But they are certainly lower-risk than larger dogs. The other half of my comment points out that dogs are bred not just for specific looks, but for specific behaviors and temperaments. I understand why people don't like to discuss this (either because they worry it takes responsibility away from the dog owner, or because it sounds a bit too much like eugenics) but it's absolutely true. This is why we have pointing dogs, sight hounds, and scent hounds, for example. As for the second part of your comment, this seems a bit like whataboutism. Certainly there are bigger risks in life besides dogs, but it's kind of besides the point of this discussion.

belorn 2y ago
When it comes to behavior, individual behavior generally exceeds that of breed. There are behavioral commonalities within breeds, but they are also mixed with the health of the breed, size, and how fast they mature. A breed with inherent narcolepsy and poor strength tend to be more easier to handle and get perceived as having calmer behavior. In term of domestic behavior, breeds with higher independence and intelligence tend to be more difficult and often get describe as having a energetic and strong willed behavior. I disagree with the whataboutism. Comparing risk is a under utilized skill in society, and people are commonly surprise when informed. If we are talking about risk to children, parents with a pet dog has a different risk profile than that of a pet horse or a pet cat. If we are assessing which kind of parent has a higher risk factor in their pet ownership, then we should not limit it to simply dog breeds. It also makes no sense to just compare pet owners, but also owners of other objects which carry risk to children. A simplistic proxy for comparing risk is to use life insurance and see what kind of risk that insurance companies find to be higher or lower. People who converts risk assessment into money don't usually care too much about the object that causes risk, but rather reduce it down to how high the risk is.
- radlad 2y ago
  It sounds like you object to the premise of the study itself, rather than its findings. I'm not really sure what to say on that point. I can tell you that I currently have a Beagle-Border Collie (50/50 per two DNA tests) mix that is incredibly energetic and intelligent, and was very easy to train. She doesn't love strangers, but she is not aggressive towards them. While she looks very much like a Beagle, she has a temperament resembling that of a Border Collie: meaning she can be let off-leash and doesn't run off following smells, and she looks to me constantly for her next move, taking to training extremely well. While many Beagles are also easily trained, they have a reputation for being stubborn and very few can be let off leash. On the other hand, BCs are known for sticking close to their handlers. However, like a Beagle, she will stuff her face until she pukes given the chance. These are well-documented traits of these breeds. When I interact with other BC's (or related breeds, like Australian Shepherds) and Beagles they behave very similarly. I'm not sure why you're resistant to the idea that breeds have different temperaments.
  - belorn 2y ago
    To take Border Collie, common behavior issues are jumping (which can cause issues with children or vulnerable), Anxiety (common with females) which can lead to aggression, strong herding instinct which can also lead to situation of perceived aggression, higher than normal need for mental stimulation that can lead to property destruction, and nipping behavior which is a form of unprovoked biting of humans (Usually towards the face, hands or arms). All those are well documented traits of Border Collies and could be used to describe a violent breed, and yet for most people who has owned one (like me), would find each of those very unfair description of what it actually means to own such breed. They are well known issues, especially if the dog is not handled correctly, and is a reason why they sadly often end up being sold or sent to a shelter when inexperienced dog owners fail to provide the necessary training and stimulation that a Border Collie usually need, resulting in unwanted behavior. Does that mean the temperament of Border Collie is that of aggressiveness? No. Does it mean they can't be near children? No. Their temperament can look like aggression from the outside but they are generally not aggressive. They are however a breed that is not recommended to inexperienced owners.

by radlad 2y ago

belorn 2y ago

When it comes to behavior, individual behavior generally exceeds that of breed. There are behavioral commonalities within breeds, but they are also mixed with the health of the breed, size, and how fast they mature. A breed with inherent narcolepsy and poor strength tend to be more easier to handle and get perceived as having calmer behavior. In term of domestic behavior, breeds with higher independence and intelligence tend to be more difficult and often get describe as having a energetic and strong willed behavior. I disagree with the whataboutism. Comparing risk is a under utilized skill in society, and people are commonly surprise when informed. If we are talking about risk to children, parents with a pet dog has a different risk profile than that of a pet horse or a pet cat. If we are assessing which kind of parent has a higher risk factor in their pet ownership, then we should not limit it to simply dog breeds. It also makes no sense to just compare pet owners, but also owners of other objects which carry risk to children. A simplistic proxy for comparing risk is to use life insurance and see what kind of risk that insurance companies find to be higher or lower. People who converts risk assessment into money don't usually care too much about the object that causes risk, but rather reduce it down to how high the risk is.

radlad 2y ago
It sounds like you object to the premise of the study itself, rather than its findings. I'm not really sure what to say on that point. I can tell you that I currently have a Beagle-Border Collie (50/50 per two DNA tests) mix that is incredibly energetic and intelligent, and was very easy to train. She doesn't love strangers, but she is not aggressive towards them. While she looks very much like a Beagle, she has a temperament resembling that of a Border Collie: meaning she can be let off-leash and doesn't run off following smells, and she looks to me constantly for her next move, taking to training extremely well. While many Beagles are also easily trained, they have a reputation for being stubborn and very few can be let off leash. On the other hand, BCs are known for sticking close to their handlers. However, like a Beagle, she will stuff her face until she pukes given the chance. These are well-documented traits of these breeds. When I interact with other BC's (or related breeds, like Australian Shepherds) and Beagles they behave very similarly. I'm not sure why you're resistant to the idea that breeds have different temperaments.
- belorn 2y ago
  To take Border Collie, common behavior issues are jumping (which can cause issues with children or vulnerable), Anxiety (common with females) which can lead to aggression, strong herding instinct which can also lead to situation of perceived aggression, higher than normal need for mental stimulation that can lead to property destruction, and nipping behavior which is a form of unprovoked biting of humans (Usually towards the face, hands or arms). All those are well documented traits of Border Collies and could be used to describe a violent breed, and yet for most people who has owned one (like me), would find each of those very unfair description of what it actually means to own such breed. They are well known issues, especially if the dog is not handled correctly, and is a reason why they sadly often end up being sold or sent to a shelter when inexperienced dog owners fail to provide the necessary training and stimulation that a Border Collie usually need, resulting in unwanted behavior. Does that mean the temperament of Border Collie is that of aggressiveness? No. Does it mean they can't be near children? No. Their temperament can look like aggression from the outside but they are generally not aggressive. They are however a breed that is not recommended to inexperienced owners.