8 ms·

How dare the founders be born in a country!

by shilgapira 2y ago

cess11 2y ago
[flagged]
- shilgapira 2y ago
  Tel Aviv is not the capital of Israel, and the rest of the ludicrous claims and blood libels in your post are at about the same level of accuracy. At least you're consistent.
  - bschmidt61 2y ago
    [dead]
  - cess11 2y ago
    Tel Aviv is the de facto capital. That's where most countries put their embassies and the claim on Jerusalem is contested. Are you a christian zionist?
jacooper 2y ago
You are saying this as if the founder is a normal civilian. The guy served in unit 8200 and 81 around the beginning of the 2000s(Second Intifada, first g a z a war, if not more), and overstayed his mandatory service. This isn't a normal company, just like every Israeli security "startup" with founders coming from idf intelligence units. Even ignoring this, 32b for such a company just doesn't make sense.
- dev_0 2y ago
  [dead]
- Protostome 2y ago
  Yes, the world is a very simple, non-complex system. People can be either child killing monsters or complete saints.
  - cess11 2y ago
    Ami Luttwak apparently liked the first category enough to become a Talpiot program graduate and hence deepen his ties to it.
    - Protostome 2y ago
      I struggle to see the issue here. Your perspective remains extremely polarized, regardless of the individual involved. You fail to grasp the conflict’s complexity and, as a result, demonize everyone associated with it. Just because someone joins the Israeli army doesn’t mean they endorse every action taken by Israel; They enlist because they understand that, Israel being such a small country won't exist without an army. Now you may not care, or even endorse such a development. But you can't blame someone who lived there all their lives and has families and friends all over the country to think and act the same.
      - cess11 2y ago
        Maybe if you explained that supposed complexity and didn't stop at an ad hominem argument your first parapgraph might have had some weight, but you didn't. There is very little complexity to the "conflict". A political movement supported by antisemites wanting to get rid of jews at home established a state through displacement and eradication of the indigenous population. This state has continued applying these kinds of policies to the indigenous population and neighbouring states, and is dependent on foreign aid and the atrocious pillage of other countries, e.g. to support israeli diamond exports. After the second world war there was an informal consensus that states that participate in genocide do not deserve sovereignty, a position that has since been eroded, in part by the main supplier of the israeli occupation. I understand how people that grow up in fiercely chauvinist and expansionist societies that are groomed since preschool to participate in military apartheid activities have trouble resisting these, which is why I don't believe israeli society can be a part of the solution to its occupation in the short term.
        Protostome 2y ago
        You literally went after someone just because they’re Israeli-could be my friend, coworker, or even me. If you single someone out like that, don’t be shocked when you get called out in return. And honestly, I’m not convinced my previous comment even counts as a real ad hominem-though sure, if it makes you feel better, let’s call it that. But let's get one thing straight: calling the Arabs in Israel/Palestine "indigenous" while dismissing the Jewish people’s claim to that land is laughable. The very name "Jew" comes from Judea—this same strip of land-where Jewish history stretches back millennia. I’m not saying Arab families who lived there never had rights; of course, they deserve their own country too. But the idea that they’re the only "indigenous" group is just another cheap piece of propaganda, right up there with labeling the whole situation as "genocide" or "apartheid". People have moved in and out of Israel/Judea for centuries. Plenty of folks calling themselves Palestinian today came around the same time as the Zionists or later-just look at the family names that point to places like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and beyond Al-Baghdadi, Al-Masri (the Egyptian), Halabi (Haleb = Allepo, Syria), Hourani (from Houran in southern Syria), Tzurani (from Tyre in southern Lebanon), Hijazi (from the Hijaz province of the Arabian peninsula), Mughrabi (from the Maghreb). Hell, Arafat was born in Egypt. My basic point is this: both sides do actually have claims. But one side made it pretty clear they weren’t interested in compromise and resorted to terror against civilians, starting way back in the ‘60s. Naturally, the other side fought back, and things escalated. As for calling Israeli society "chauvinist", give me a break. Israel had a female prime minister in the ’70s, has had women on its Supreme Court since forever, and meanwhile the U.S. is still waiting on its first female president. So, yeah-save the grandstanding about "chauvinism". It’s not as black-and-white as you’re painting it, and if you’re going to throw punches, don’t whine when you get punched back.
- shilgapira 2y ago
  Of course the founder is a normal civilian. Israel has mandatory conscription so you'd expect any normal civilian to also have served in the IDF at some point. It might sound weird to people from the US and many other western nations. Most people there aren't concerned with serving in the military - they either leave it to working class folks to serve, or they don't really have any neighboring enemies. The Israelis aren't as privileged unfortunately. Israel requires all its citizens to serve so that its military is large enough and strong enough to defend against attacks from the many regressive and murderous regimes that surround it, or even better, deter them from even trying to attack.
  - cess11 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - breppp 2y ago
      I seriously suspect you don't know what's the Talpiot program
      - cess11 2y ago
        Why? It's a military academy program deeply integrated into the research and development of the IDF and israeli military industry. It's where you go if you're really bright and really loyal to the genocidal aspects of israeli society and want to spend six years devoted to that.
        breppp 2y ago
        lol "genocidal aspects of israeli society" recently i have been meeting more and more people whose entire vocabulary seem to be hyperboles and are only capable of black and white thinking
        cess11 2y ago
        There isn't much grey in airstrikes on starving children shivering in tents. No sane, healthy person would approve of such an atrocity. The israeli political establishment commonly declares genocidal intent against the palestinians, and uses military, sexual, reproductive and other means, including starvation, to realise this intent. This isn't really something to discuss, the reader can just go search for video clips with threats and Amalek rhetoric and how perpetrators of heinous crimes are paraded in israeli television. Whether it will hold in court is uncertain, in part because international law is not just a legal matter. Buying a corporation that has it's technical division under such a regime seems like a bad idea to me, and I would also find the founders history with that state quite worrying.
- bschmidt60 2y ago
  [flagged]
- tdeck 2y ago
  In Israel, a "normal civilian" sees the Sde Teiman video and thinks "those soldiers are heroes".
  - shilgapira 2y ago
    Would you have written the same sentence only with "China" and "Tiananmen Square"? It's really interesting to see these small mask-off moments when relatively veteran HN users allow themselves to indulge in such obvious bigotry as this comment. Weird how you only really see this happening when the post has some relation to the Jewish state.
    - tdeck 2y ago
      Nothing you wrote actually refutes my point that these people not only escaped consequences, but they were protected by rioters and then becane celebrities in the Israeli late night circuit. Remind me which other countries had a debate in their parliament about whether it was OK to gang r*ape a prisoner in the rectum and send them to the hospital? When countries commit atrocities like that it's normal for there to be backlash. Apparently it's a mask off moment to notice these things? Or maybe you should examine why you think they're normal.
      - gryzzly 2y ago
        Did you dig deep into what Syrian regime did to Syrians? What about Russian atrocities? Not to mention Sudan. Maybe you were defending Yezidis? I doubt you ever mentioned any war crimes in any of these conflicts.
        cess11 2y ago
        The israeli impunity has likely made Russia more ruthless in Ukraine, with for example attacks on hospitals. Sudan is an interesting example to bring up, since the RSF is closely connected with Israel's friends in the UAE, and the UAE has recently asked the US to help them avoid responsibility for what they've done. The Assad regime clinged to power in part in the way it did because it was what Israel preferred, israeli elites have been very afraid of what would follow the fall of Assad, which is likely why they've bombed Syria more or less constantly since then and occupies a large portion of the country. In the West many people believe the Assad dynasty to have been a clean iranian asset, but this isn't true. Bashar had good relations with security services in many other countries, and was one recipient of people collected by the US for torture during the so called War on Terror. Besides Beirut and possibly Amman it's likely Damascus was the most important spy hub in the region. The fate of Syria is an enormous tragedy, that could likely have been avoided.
- jacooper 2y ago
  Correction, all co-founders and a lot of staff come from unit 8200 Typical Israeli security "startup".

How dare the founders be born in a country!

cess11 2y ago

[flagged]

shilgapira 2y ago
Tel Aviv is not the capital of Israel, and the rest of the ludicrous claims and blood libels in your post are at about the same level of accuracy. At least you're consistent.
- bschmidt61 2y ago
  [dead]
- cess11 2y ago
  Tel Aviv is the de facto capital. That's where most countries put their embassies and the claim on Jerusalem is contested. Are you a christian zionist?

jacooper 2y ago

You are saying this as if the founder is a normal civilian. The guy served in unit 8200 and 81 around the beginning of the 2000s(Second Intifada, first g a z a war, if not more), and overstayed his mandatory service. This isn't a normal company, just like every Israeli security "startup" with founders coming from idf intelligence units. Even ignoring this, 32b for such a company just doesn't make sense.

dev_0 2y ago
[dead]
Protostome 2y ago
Yes, the world is a very simple, non-complex system. People can be either child killing monsters or complete saints.
- cess11 2y ago
  Ami Luttwak apparently liked the first category enough to become a Talpiot program graduate and hence deepen his ties to it.
  - Protostome 2y ago
    I struggle to see the issue here. Your perspective remains extremely polarized, regardless of the individual involved. You fail to grasp the conflict’s complexity and, as a result, demonize everyone associated with it. Just because someone joins the Israeli army doesn’t mean they endorse every action taken by Israel; They enlist because they understand that, Israel being such a small country won't exist without an army. Now you may not care, or even endorse such a development. But you can't blame someone who lived there all their lives and has families and friends all over the country to think and act the same.
    - cess11 2y ago
      Maybe if you explained that supposed complexity and didn't stop at an ad hominem argument your first parapgraph might have had some weight, but you didn't. There is very little complexity to the "conflict". A political movement supported by antisemites wanting to get rid of jews at home established a state through displacement and eradication of the indigenous population. This state has continued applying these kinds of policies to the indigenous population and neighbouring states, and is dependent on foreign aid and the atrocious pillage of other countries, e.g. to support israeli diamond exports. After the second world war there was an informal consensus that states that participate in genocide do not deserve sovereignty, a position that has since been eroded, in part by the main supplier of the israeli occupation. I understand how people that grow up in fiercely chauvinist and expansionist societies that are groomed since preschool to participate in military apartheid activities have trouble resisting these, which is why I don't believe israeli society can be a part of the solution to its occupation in the short term.
      - Protostome 2y ago
        You literally went after someone just because they’re Israeli-could be my friend, coworker, or even me. If you single someone out like that, don’t be shocked when you get called out in return. And honestly, I’m not convinced my previous comment even counts as a real ad hominem-though sure, if it makes you feel better, let’s call it that. But let's get one thing straight: calling the Arabs in Israel/Palestine "indigenous" while dismissing the Jewish people’s claim to that land is laughable. The very name "Jew" comes from Judea—this same strip of land-where Jewish history stretches back millennia. I’m not saying Arab families who lived there never had rights; of course, they deserve their own country too. But the idea that they’re the only "indigenous" group is just another cheap piece of propaganda, right up there with labeling the whole situation as "genocide" or "apartheid". People have moved in and out of Israel/Judea for centuries. Plenty of folks calling themselves Palestinian today came around the same time as the Zionists or later-just look at the family names that point to places like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and beyond Al-Baghdadi, Al-Masri (the Egyptian), Halabi (Haleb = Allepo, Syria), Hourani (from Houran in southern Syria), Tzurani (from Tyre in southern Lebanon), Hijazi (from the Hijaz province of the Arabian peninsula), Mughrabi (from the Maghreb). Hell, Arafat was born in Egypt. My basic point is this: both sides do actually have claims. But one side made it pretty clear they weren’t interested in compromise and resorted to terror against civilians, starting way back in the ‘60s. Naturally, the other side fought back, and things escalated. As for calling Israeli society "chauvinist", give me a break. Israel had a female prime minister in the ’70s, has had women on its Supreme Court since forever, and meanwhile the U.S. is still waiting on its first female president. So, yeah-save the grandstanding about "chauvinism". It’s not as black-and-white as you’re painting it, and if you’re going to throw punches, don’t whine when you get punched back.
shilgapira 2y ago
Of course the founder is a normal civilian. Israel has mandatory conscription so you'd expect any normal civilian to also have served in the IDF at some point. It might sound weird to people from the US and many other western nations. Most people there aren't concerned with serving in the military - they either leave it to working class folks to serve, or they don't really have any neighboring enemies. The Israelis aren't as privileged unfortunately. Israel requires all its citizens to serve so that its military is large enough and strong enough to defend against attacks from the many regressive and murderous regimes that surround it, or even better, deter them from even trying to attack.
- cess11 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - breppp 2y ago
    I seriously suspect you don't know what's the Talpiot program
    - cess11 2y ago
      Why? It's a military academy program deeply integrated into the research and development of the IDF and israeli military industry. It's where you go if you're really bright and really loyal to the genocidal aspects of israeli society and want to spend six years devoted to that.
      - breppp 2y ago
        lol "genocidal aspects of israeli society" recently i have been meeting more and more people whose entire vocabulary seem to be hyperboles and are only capable of black and white thinking
        cess11 2y ago
        There isn't much grey in airstrikes on starving children shivering in tents. No sane, healthy person would approve of such an atrocity. The israeli political establishment commonly declares genocidal intent against the palestinians, and uses military, sexual, reproductive and other means, including starvation, to realise this intent. This isn't really something to discuss, the reader can just go search for video clips with threats and Amalek rhetoric and how perpetrators of heinous crimes are paraded in israeli television. Whether it will hold in court is uncertain, in part because international law is not just a legal matter. Buying a corporation that has it's technical division under such a regime seems like a bad idea to me, and I would also find the founders history with that state quite worrying.
bschmidt60 2y ago
[flagged]
tdeck 2y ago
In Israel, a "normal civilian" sees the Sde Teiman video and thinks "those soldiers are heroes".
- shilgapira 2y ago
  Would you have written the same sentence only with "China" and "Tiananmen Square"? It's really interesting to see these small mask-off moments when relatively veteran HN users allow themselves to indulge in such obvious bigotry as this comment. Weird how you only really see this happening when the post has some relation to the Jewish state.
  - tdeck 2y ago
    Nothing you wrote actually refutes my point that these people not only escaped consequences, but they were protected by rioters and then becane celebrities in the Israeli late night circuit. Remind me which other countries had a debate in their parliament about whether it was OK to gang r*ape a prisoner in the rectum and send them to the hospital? When countries commit atrocities like that it's normal for there to be backlash. Apparently it's a mask off moment to notice these things? Or maybe you should examine why you think they're normal.
    - gryzzly 2y ago
      Did you dig deep into what Syrian regime did to Syrians? What about Russian atrocities? Not to mention Sudan. Maybe you were defending Yezidis? I doubt you ever mentioned any war crimes in any of these conflicts.
      - cess11 2y ago
        The israeli impunity has likely made Russia more ruthless in Ukraine, with for example attacks on hospitals. Sudan is an interesting example to bring up, since the RSF is closely connected with Israel's friends in the UAE, and the UAE has recently asked the US to help them avoid responsibility for what they've done. The Assad regime clinged to power in part in the way it did because it was what Israel preferred, israeli elites have been very afraid of what would follow the fall of Assad, which is likely why they've bombed Syria more or less constantly since then and occupies a large portion of the country. In the West many people believe the Assad dynasty to have been a clean iranian asset, but this isn't true. Bashar had good relations with security services in many other countries, and was one recipient of people collected by the US for torture during the so called War on Terror. Besides Beirut and possibly Amman it's likely Damascus was the most important spy hub in the region. The fate of Syria is an enormous tragedy, that could likely have been avoided.
jacooper 2y ago
Correction, all co-founders and a lot of staff come from unit 8200 Typical Israeli security "startup".