4 ms·

I think the privacy argument is generally the wrong way round in Europe. So much time and effort is spent on marketing privacy - which IMO is mostly very low ri

I think the privacy argument is generally the wrong way round in Europe. So much time and effort is spent on marketing privacy - which IMO is mostly very low risk (there are exceptions, of course). The real problem is "sensitive data" privacy which is usually managed by the government in Europe. Things like healthcare records, diplomatic cables, police records, unredacted census data, etc. When/if there was a mass breach of that the consequences would be unbelievably serious - much more than marketing preferences. GDPR has cost hundreds of billions in compliance costs for really not a huge amount of gain in my opinion (some of it is good - like fines for poor cybersecurity practices, but it places an enormous compliance burden on SMEs for SARs and the like). I have rarely heard of any similar initiatives to secure government data.

Urahandystar 2y ago
The huge increase in online fraud would say that your original premise is incorrect. The major financial institutions are eating billions every year in fees they have to refund the customer having been a victim of fraud.
- martinald 2y ago
  But we have GDPR in the UK and bank fraud is stratospheric. I don't understand what that has to do with it? It's not like the fraudsters are implementing GDPR themselves is it?
blitzar 2y ago
> marketing privacy - which IMO is mostly very low risk > The real problem is "sensitive data" privacy managed by the government I get multiple scam calls a day, 1000's of spam emails every day. 100% of that is from "marketing" privacy violations - my details either sold or leaked by private companies.
- Ylpertnodi 2y ago
  Did you fully read the EULA?
  - blitzar 2y ago
    Which version? The one when I signed up, the one when they decided to monetize their user data, the one when they decided to sell the data or the one they released retrospectively after they got "hacked" via a plain text unscured s3 bucket?
dmix 2y ago
> GDPR has cost hundreds of billions in compliance costs for really not a huge amount of gain in my opinion Last time I researched GDPR I discovered it's not meaningfully enforced and the advertising business hasn't changed significantly at all, even in Europe. They have a big back log of older claims and the stuff they enforce trickles out slowly. It's mostly voluntary compliance and only the bigger noisier consumer-UI facing social media companies get attention, not the bulk of business who make money off data. Similar to cookie banners I doubt it will have much long term impact for the internet in real terms (absent major enforcement on data industry and constant updates to reflect new technology/adaption ala cookies->fingerprinting/JS embeds), but people will claim it as a success regardless.
helsinkiandrew 2y ago
> I have rarely heard of any similar initiatives to secure government data. Healthcare records seem to be hugely regulated around the world: eHDSI, HIPAA etc. In the UK disclosing health records (deliberately or due to a security breach) can result in criminal liabilities - up to 2 years imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine, which probably makes sure those implementing security take it seriously. The biggest issue with much 'sensitive data' privacy is usually human error/corruption - I believe all breaches of police records in the UK have been caused by trusted people accessing/selling records or errors handling legitimate data (lost USB drives, publishing unredacted data etc), which have resulted in prison sentences or people losing jobs/getting demoted and departments being fined.
- NikkiA 2y ago
  > which probably makes sure those implementing security take it seriously. OTOH the government gave all our health care data to palantir a while back, so while it might be serious for individuals, fascist chucklefucks can do what they want.
  - helsinkiandrew 2y ago
    > the government gave all our health care data to palantir a while back. They didn't give Palantir "all our health care data" they paid them to build a backend for the NHS: https://www.palantir.com/uk/healthcare/ https://www.palantir.com/uk/healthcare/
- martinald 2y ago
  Yes I know about HIPAA etc. GDPR cost apparently so far £100bn in business compliance costs (I can easily believe that given the amount of time I have spent discussing GDPR in meetings). I think that level of cost should have been focussed more at government, rather than private companies.

Urahandystar 2y ago

The huge increase in online fraud would say that your original premise is incorrect. The major financial institutions are eating billions every year in fees they have to refund the customer having been a victim of fraud.

martinald 2y ago
But we have GDPR in the UK and bank fraud is stratospheric. I don't understand what that has to do with it? It's not like the fraudsters are implementing GDPR themselves is it?

blitzar 2y ago

> marketing privacy - which IMO is mostly very low risk > The real problem is "sensitive data" privacy managed by the government I get multiple scam calls a day, 1000's of spam emails every day. 100% of that is from "marketing" privacy violations - my details either sold or leaked by private companies.

Ylpertnodi 2y ago
Did you fully read the EULA?
- blitzar 2y ago
  Which version? The one when I signed up, the one when they decided to monetize their user data, the one when they decided to sell the data or the one they released retrospectively after they got "hacked" via a plain text unscured s3 bucket?

dmix 2y ago

> GDPR has cost hundreds of billions in compliance costs for really not a huge amount of gain in my opinion Last time I researched GDPR I discovered it's not meaningfully enforced and the advertising business hasn't changed significantly at all, even in Europe. They have a big back log of older claims and the stuff they enforce trickles out slowly. It's mostly voluntary compliance and only the bigger noisier consumer-UI facing social media companies get attention, not the bulk of business who make money off data. Similar to cookie banners I doubt it will have much long term impact for the internet in real terms (absent major enforcement on data industry and constant updates to reflect new technology/adaption ala cookies->fingerprinting/JS embeds), but people will claim it as a success regardless.

helsinkiandrew 2y ago

> I have rarely heard of any similar initiatives to secure government data. Healthcare records seem to be hugely regulated around the world: eHDSI, HIPAA etc. In the UK disclosing health records (deliberately or due to a security breach) can result in criminal liabilities - up to 2 years imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine, which probably makes sure those implementing security take it seriously. The biggest issue with much 'sensitive data' privacy is usually human error/corruption - I believe all breaches of police records in the UK have been caused by trusted people accessing/selling records or errors handling legitimate data (lost USB drives, publishing unredacted data etc), which have resulted in prison sentences or people losing jobs/getting demoted and departments being fined.

NikkiA 2y ago
> which probably makes sure those implementing security take it seriously. OTOH the government gave all our health care data to palantir a while back, so while it might be serious for individuals, fascist chucklefucks can do what they want.
- helsinkiandrew 2y ago
  > the government gave all our health care data to palantir a while back. They didn't give Palantir "all our health care data" they paid them to build a backend for the NHS: https://www.palantir.com/uk/healthcare/ https://www.palantir.com/uk/healthcare/
martinald 2y ago
Yes I know about HIPAA etc. GDPR cost apparently so far £100bn in business compliance costs (I can easily believe that given the amount of time I have spent discussing GDPR in meetings). I think that level of cost should have been focussed more at government, rather than private companies.