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The person I originally responded to claimed that "the people of Afghanistan"(Actually the Taliban) defeated the "worlds most powerful military". This is objec

by Gud 2y ago

The person I originally responded to claimed that "the people of Afghanistan"(Actually the Taliban) defeated the "worlds most powerful military". This is objectively false. Eventually, occupation became politically hard to motivate for an American public that was tired of war. But to claim the Taliban beat the US military is ridiculous. FWIW I was there.

Teever 2y ago
I was under impression that the Taliban is in charge of things in Afghanistan in 2025. Is this not the case? And furthermore to my original point do you think that the ubiquity of cheap drones on the battlefield in 2025 would make similar attempts to conquer Afghanistan by the US easier or more difficult if the US were to try the same again?
- Gud 2y ago
  You are not at all addressing the point I made, that the military campaign against the Taliban was a swift and successful action. You stated that the Taliban beat the worlds most advanced military, which they didn't. That the subsequent occupation ended with the Talibans return to power has nothing to do with the war itself but has political reasons. In my opinion, the occupation could have ended completely different with a longer commitment. Unfortunately, the Iraq invasion happened and the American population had little long term interest in nation building, two nations at once. FWIW Iraq and Afghanistan are very different places. But this has nothing to do with the military campaign itself. When I was there and where I was(2010, northern Afghanistan), it was a fairly peaceful place. Things were progressing in the right direction. Regarding your second question, I don't think that the Taliban would have great use of drones considering that we could use essentially the same counter measures we used against remotely operated IEDs(jamming). Ukraine does not have access to the same equipment we did in Afghanistan. EDIT: This article pretty much reflects my views on what went wrong. The US government half assed the occupation and withdrew too early. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/the-runaway-general-the-profile-that-brought-down-mcchrystal-192609/?RS_show_page=0 https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/the-runa...
  - Teever 2y ago
    I'm not addressing the point you made because it's nonsensical. Could you imagine a different set of circumstances where the year is 1950 and Adolf Hitler is still Fuhrer of the Third Reich and someone is arguing that America won WW2? America lost in Vietnam, they lost in Iraq, and they lost in Afghanistan. The sooner you come to realize this and that your time spent in Afghanistan was a waste the sooner you'll have a more accurate worldview and can make better decisions than to sign up for what was at that point an obviously pointless war. > I don't think that the Taliban would have great use of drones considering that we could use essentially the same counter measures we used against remotely operated IEDs(jamming). Doesn't seem to be working out for either side in Ukraine.
    - Gud 2y ago
      You made a specific argument, that the Taliban defeated the US military. This absolutely did not happen. I’ve said what I had to say, have a nice day.
      - Teever 2y ago
        No, I made a specific argument that the people of Afghanistan defeated the US military. This absolutely did happen and their long fought victory has saddled the US with an tremendous monetary debt and social debt in the form of a fractured American society the consequences of which are an increasingly authoritarian America that is brutishly lashing out at their allies in that conflict. America's loss in that conflict has cost America far more than we can imagine right now and the cost is only increasing by the day.
        kennysoona 2y ago
        No, that never happened. The US was in control and then voluntarily left.
        owebmaster 2y ago
        so it won some battles but lost the war?
irishcule 2y ago
People struggle to wrap their head around logic like yours because it is essentially just being pedantic. - Before the war the Taliban controlled Afghanistan. - The US (+ Allies) invaded and conquered the country. - 20 years later the US Military has left the county. - The Taliban now controls the country again. - At no point during that 20 years was the Taliban actually "defeated" like claimed. Whether you like it or not "Money and patience ran out" = losing the war. There are many other "lost wars" where they were lost for the same reason. The most obvious one in this context being the Vietnam war.... which is also a popular one for people to argue that the US Military didn't lose either.
lostlogin 2y ago
With a definition like that, the US won the Vietnam war too.

by Gud 2y ago

Teever 2y ago

I was under impression that the Taliban is in charge of things in Afghanistan in 2025. Is this not the case? And furthermore to my original point do you think that the ubiquity of cheap drones on the battlefield in 2025 would make similar attempts to conquer Afghanistan by the US easier or more difficult if the US were to try the same again?

Gud 2y ago
You are not at all addressing the point I made, that the military campaign against the Taliban was a swift and successful action. You stated that the Taliban beat the worlds most advanced military, which they didn't. That the subsequent occupation ended with the Talibans return to power has nothing to do with the war itself but has political reasons. In my opinion, the occupation could have ended completely different with a longer commitment. Unfortunately, the Iraq invasion happened and the American population had little long term interest in nation building, two nations at once. FWIW Iraq and Afghanistan are very different places. But this has nothing to do with the military campaign itself. When I was there and where I was(2010, northern Afghanistan), it was a fairly peaceful place. Things were progressing in the right direction. Regarding your second question, I don't think that the Taliban would have great use of drones considering that we could use essentially the same counter measures we used against remotely operated IEDs(jamming). Ukraine does not have access to the same equipment we did in Afghanistan. EDIT: This article pretty much reflects my views on what went wrong. The US government half assed the occupation and withdrew too early. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/the-runaway-general-the-profile-that-brought-down-mcchrystal-192609/?RS_show_page=0 https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/the-runa...
- Teever 2y ago
  I'm not addressing the point you made because it's nonsensical. Could you imagine a different set of circumstances where the year is 1950 and Adolf Hitler is still Fuhrer of the Third Reich and someone is arguing that America won WW2? America lost in Vietnam, they lost in Iraq, and they lost in Afghanistan. The sooner you come to realize this and that your time spent in Afghanistan was a waste the sooner you'll have a more accurate worldview and can make better decisions than to sign up for what was at that point an obviously pointless war. > I don't think that the Taliban would have great use of drones considering that we could use essentially the same counter measures we used against remotely operated IEDs(jamming). Doesn't seem to be working out for either side in Ukraine.
  - Gud 2y ago
    You made a specific argument, that the Taliban defeated the US military. This absolutely did not happen. I’ve said what I had to say, have a nice day.
    - Teever 2y ago
      No, I made a specific argument that the people of Afghanistan defeated the US military. This absolutely did happen and their long fought victory has saddled the US with an tremendous monetary debt and social debt in the form of a fractured American society the consequences of which are an increasingly authoritarian America that is brutishly lashing out at their allies in that conflict. America's loss in that conflict has cost America far more than we can imagine right now and the cost is only increasing by the day.
      - kennysoona 2y ago
        No, that never happened. The US was in control and then voluntarily left.
        owebmaster 2y ago
        so it won some battles but lost the war?

irishcule 2y ago

People struggle to wrap their head around logic like yours because it is essentially just being pedantic. - Before the war the Taliban controlled Afghanistan. - The US (+ Allies) invaded and conquered the country. - 20 years later the US Military has left the county. - The Taliban now controls the country again. - At no point during that 20 years was the Taliban actually "defeated" like claimed. Whether you like it or not "Money and patience ran out" = losing the war. There are many other "lost wars" where they were lost for the same reason. The most obvious one in this context being the Vietnam war.... which is also a popular one for people to argue that the US Military didn't lose either.

lostlogin 2y ago

With a definition like that, the US won the Vietnam war too.