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The fundamental problem with a dynamic layout is that you need to look at it to know what the keys are. The one huge, underrated benefit of a static layout is

The fundamental problem with a dynamic layout is that you need to look at it to know what the keys are. The one huge, underrated benefit of a static layout is that it's constant across the environments that you use it in, so it's (always to some degree, rarely perfectly) memorised. Qwerty doubly so, because so many people have it memorised. It avoids the problem with the Maximus that in order to take advantage of the dynamic layout, you really want to be able to see through your fingers. Your fingertips by default block the information you need. I can see the Maximus being useful for switching between and learning new layouts - so if you want to give colemak a try you can, without needing to swap all your keycaps (even if that's possible on your keyboard), or swapping to blanks and forcing yourself to learn everything by heart. But I think the reason you don't see this idea repeated much is that it's self-defeating.

taeric 2y ago
Do you have to be looking at it? My keyboard has blank keys. I used to use vim, which had a modal input scheme. My music keyboard has modes where different keys play different instruments. I agree that having the legends are good for affordances when learning. But they oddly hurt training. Specifically, they make it harder to remove the visual from the feedback loop. When training typing a long time ago, you wouldn't even look at the screen til you typed it all.
- Analemma_ 2y ago
  That's exactly the opposite scenario though: the reason you can get away with having blank keys on a keyboard or a modal input in vim is that the inputs never change, you can commit them to muscle memory and then never consciously think about it. That all gets blown away if the interface is dynamic.
  - taeric 2y ago
    But they do change? Depending on the mode of my editor, they do different things. There is some stability, but not absolute. Similarly, if I play a game using me keyboard, which keys control my character will be in contrast to what is displayed on the keyboard. Now, constant change would be bad. But I'm assuming that isn't what is being proposed?
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      It is, in the sense that, if there's a way to display a dynamic label on individual keys, some UI/UX designers will make use of that to create interfaces that can't be learned, as they change depending on tasks, environments, and from version to version. Consider that touchscreen is very much this, and ever since phones got them, you can no longer do anything without looking at the screen. Interfaces are not stable enough to learn (and not reliable enough to operate without looking).
      - taeric 2y ago
        Yeah, on that I will agree it would be a terrible idea. The stream deck should be a good example, though; In that I'm assuming that most people do not have those buttons change much? Amusingly, I'm now remembering the very old video game system where the different games had cards you slid into the controller to indicate what the different buttons did. Seems like that is the general ideal.
- regularfry 2y ago
  The whole point of the Maximus is that it had little displays on each keycap.
mncharity 2y ago
> you really want to be able to see through your fingers As when graphic artists draw on, and interact with, a tablet, while watching a screen, rather than using a tablet display. Similarly, while I enjoy the feel of a thinkpad keyboard, I do wish it did whole-surface multitouch and stylus and richly dynamic UI as well. So I tried kludging a flop-up overhead keyboard cam, and displaying it raw-ish as a faint screen overlay, depth segregated by offsetting it slightly above the shutter-glasses-3D screen. In limited use (panel didn't like being flickered), I recall it as... sort of tolerable. Punted next steps included seeing if head-motion perspective 3D was sufficient for segregation, and using the optical tracking to synthesize a less annoying overlay. (A ping-pong ball segment lets a stylus glide over keys.)

taeric 2y ago

Do you have to be looking at it? My keyboard has blank keys. I used to use vim, which had a modal input scheme. My music keyboard has modes where different keys play different instruments. I agree that having the legends are good for affordances when learning. But they oddly hurt training. Specifically, they make it harder to remove the visual from the feedback loop. When training typing a long time ago, you wouldn't even look at the screen til you typed it all.

Analemma_ 2y ago
That's exactly the opposite scenario though: the reason you can get away with having blank keys on a keyboard or a modal input in vim is that the inputs never change, you can commit them to muscle memory and then never consciously think about it. That all gets blown away if the interface is dynamic.
- taeric 2y ago
  But they do change? Depending on the mode of my editor, they do different things. There is some stability, but not absolute. Similarly, if I play a game using me keyboard, which keys control my character will be in contrast to what is displayed on the keyboard. Now, constant change would be bad. But I'm assuming that isn't what is being proposed?
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    It is, in the sense that, if there's a way to display a dynamic label on individual keys, some UI/UX designers will make use of that to create interfaces that can't be learned, as they change depending on tasks, environments, and from version to version. Consider that touchscreen is very much this, and ever since phones got them, you can no longer do anything without looking at the screen. Interfaces are not stable enough to learn (and not reliable enough to operate without looking).
    - taeric 2y ago
      Yeah, on that I will agree it would be a terrible idea. The stream deck should be a good example, though; In that I'm assuming that most people do not have those buttons change much? Amusingly, I'm now remembering the very old video game system where the different games had cards you slid into the controller to indicate what the different buttons did. Seems like that is the general ideal.
regularfry 2y ago
The whole point of the Maximus is that it had little displays on each keycap.

mncharity 2y ago

> you really want to be able to see through your fingers As when graphic artists draw on, and interact with, a tablet, while watching a screen, rather than using a tablet display. Similarly, while I enjoy the feel of a thinkpad keyboard, I do wish it did whole-surface multitouch and stylus and richly dynamic UI as well. So I tried kludging a flop-up overhead keyboard cam, and displaying it raw-ish as a faint screen overlay, depth segregated by offsetting it slightly above the shutter-glasses-3D screen. In limited use (panel didn't like being flickered), I recall it as... sort of tolerable. Punted next steps included seeing if head-motion perspective 3D was sufficient for segregation, and using the optical tracking to synthesize a less annoying overlay. (A ping-pong ball segment lets a stylus glide over keys.)