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just like with crypto, AI culture is fundamentally tainted (see this very thread where people are defending this shit). Legislation hasn’t caught up and doing w

just like with crypto, AI culture is fundamentally tainted (see this very thread where people are defending this shit). Legislation hasn’t caught up and doing what’s essentially a crime (functionally this is just a DDoS) is being sold as a cool thing to do by the people who don’t foot the bill. If you ever ask yourself why everybody else hates you and your ilk, this attitude is why. The thing I don’t understand with AI though is that without the host, your parasite is nothing. Shouldn’t it be in your best interest to not kill it?

amarcheschi 2y ago
I would like to add that european llm projects made from openly available sources do exist and were previously discussed here on hn. They're much smaller model than the top llm other countries have made, but iirc they're made ethically (and are open source). The culture of "fuck you got mine" is something i despise on a very deep level, not just including ai but most big tech shitfuckery that has been going on since forever
kermit___ 2y ago
I hear you, and there are even greater concerns than the “you kids get off of my lawn” vibe, e.g. the massive amounts of water required for cooling data centers. But the “bubble” threat the post mentions is just emotional; things are accelerating so quickly that what is hype one day isn’t hype in a few months. LLM usage is just going to get heavier. What should get better are filters that prevent bots from easily scraping content. Required auth could work. Yes, it breaks things. Yes, it may kill your business. If you can’t deal with that, find another solution, which might be crowdfunding, subscription, or might be giving up and moving on. Working towards a solution makes more sense than getting angry and ranting.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  The playing fields is very asymmetric. Can you negotiate with these guys? No. They're faceless when it comes to their data operations. Secretive, covert even. Creating a solution requires cooperation. Making these models fit on smaller systems, optimizing them to work with less resources need R&D engineering, which no company wants to spend on right now. Because hype trains need to be built, monies need to be made, moats need to be dug (which is almost impossible, BTW). My 10 year old phone can track 8 people in camera app in real time, with no lag. My A7-III can remember faces, prioritize them, focus on mammals' and humans' eyes, track them and keep them in focus at 30FPS with a small DSP. Building these things is possible, but nobody cares about it right now, because AI Datacenters live in a similar state of ZIRP economy. They're almost free for what they do, even though they harm the environment in irreparable ways just to give you something which is not right. As if people lost their mind about this thing.
  - kermit___ 2y ago
    People’s basic needs are food and water, followed by safety, belonging, esteem, and finally self-actualization. In addition, convenience over non-convenience. With LLMs come a promise of safety in that they will solve our problems, potentially curing disease and solving world hunger. They can sound like people that care and make us feel respected and useful, making us feel like we belong and boosting our esteem. They do things we can’t do and help us actualize our dreams, in written code and other things. We don’t have to work hard to use them anymore, and they’re readily available. So, people are going to focus on that.
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      Ah. We have been using models, and accurate ones at that, for drug discovery, nature simulation, weather forecasting, ecosystem monitoring, etc. well before LLMs with their nondescript chat boxes have arrived. AI was there, the hardware was not. Now we have the hardware, AI world is much richer than generative image models and stochastic parrots, but we live in a world where we assume that the most noisy is the best, and worthy of our attention. It's not. The only thing is, LLMs look like they can converse while giving back worse results than these models we already have, or develop without conversation capabilities. LLMs are just shiny parrots which can taunt us from a distance, and look charitable while doing that. What they provide is not correct information, but biased Markov chains. It only proves that humans are as gullible as other animals. We are drawn to shiny things, even if they harm us.
akimbostrawman 2y ago
Where [1] is cryptocurrency fundamentally tainted? Do you also think E-Mail is fundamentally tainted because spam is widespread? [2] [1] https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf [2] https://www.emailtooltester.com/en/blog/spam-statistics/ https://www.emailtooltester.com/en/blog/spam-statistics/
- sussmannbaka 2y ago
  please read my post again. crypto culture is tainted. cryptocurrency is just tech, just as ML is just tech. crypto culture however is rug pulling, rampant scams etc. Email, again, is just tech and there is no real email culture around (mailing lists?)
  - akimbostrawman 2y ago
    Thats like saying tech culture is advertising and surveillance just because that the biggest superficial part of it. A broad generalization that is not a very helpful measurement for anything.

amarcheschi 2y ago

I would like to add that european llm projects made from openly available sources do exist and were previously discussed here on hn. They're much smaller model than the top llm other countries have made, but iirc they're made ethically (and are open source). The culture of "fuck you got mine" is something i despise on a very deep level, not just including ai but most big tech shitfuckery that has been going on since forever

kermit___ 2y ago

I hear you, and there are even greater concerns than the “you kids get off of my lawn” vibe, e.g. the massive amounts of water required for cooling data centers. But the “bubble” threat the post mentions is just emotional; things are accelerating so quickly that what is hype one day isn’t hype in a few months. LLM usage is just going to get heavier. What should get better are filters that prevent bots from easily scraping content. Required auth could work. Yes, it breaks things. Yes, it may kill your business. If you can’t deal with that, find another solution, which might be crowdfunding, subscription, or might be giving up and moving on. Working towards a solution makes more sense than getting angry and ranting.

bayindirh 2y ago
The playing fields is very asymmetric. Can you negotiate with these guys? No. They're faceless when it comes to their data operations. Secretive, covert even. Creating a solution requires cooperation. Making these models fit on smaller systems, optimizing them to work with less resources need R&D engineering, which no company wants to spend on right now. Because hype trains need to be built, monies need to be made, moats need to be dug (which is almost impossible, BTW). My 10 year old phone can track 8 people in camera app in real time, with no lag. My A7-III can remember faces, prioritize them, focus on mammals' and humans' eyes, track them and keep them in focus at 30FPS with a small DSP. Building these things is possible, but nobody cares about it right now, because AI Datacenters live in a similar state of ZIRP economy. They're almost free for what they do, even though they harm the environment in irreparable ways just to give you something which is not right. As if people lost their mind about this thing.
- kermit___ 2y ago
  People’s basic needs are food and water, followed by safety, belonging, esteem, and finally self-actualization. In addition, convenience over non-convenience. With LLMs come a promise of safety in that they will solve our problems, potentially curing disease and solving world hunger. They can sound like people that care and make us feel respected and useful, making us feel like we belong and boosting our esteem. They do things we can’t do and help us actualize our dreams, in written code and other things. We don’t have to work hard to use them anymore, and they’re readily available. So, people are going to focus on that.
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    Ah. We have been using models, and accurate ones at that, for drug discovery, nature simulation, weather forecasting, ecosystem monitoring, etc. well before LLMs with their nondescript chat boxes have arrived. AI was there, the hardware was not. Now we have the hardware, AI world is much richer than generative image models and stochastic parrots, but we live in a world where we assume that the most noisy is the best, and worthy of our attention. It's not. The only thing is, LLMs look like they can converse while giving back worse results than these models we already have, or develop without conversation capabilities. LLMs are just shiny parrots which can taunt us from a distance, and look charitable while doing that. What they provide is not correct information, but biased Markov chains. It only proves that humans are as gullible as other animals. We are drawn to shiny things, even if they harm us.

akimbostrawman 2y ago

Where [1] is cryptocurrency fundamentally tainted? Do you also think E-Mail is fundamentally tainted because spam is widespread? [2] [1] https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf [2] https://www.emailtooltester.com/en/blog/spam-statistics/ https://www.emailtooltester.com/en/blog/spam-statistics/

sussmannbaka 2y ago
please read my post again. crypto culture is tainted. cryptocurrency is just tech, just as ML is just tech. crypto culture however is rug pulling, rampant scams etc. Email, again, is just tech and there is no real email culture around (mailing lists?)
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
  Thats like saying tech culture is advertising and surveillance just because that the biggest superficial part of it. A broad generalization that is not a very helpful measurement for anything.