3 ms·

Spatial file placement is probably not even good on the desktop. In a file manager its definitely an antipattern

by rat87 2y ago

dsego 2y ago
I think on earlier windows (95 maybe?) opening a folder would also always open in a new explorer window so you had the impression that the window is actually the folder you are opening. Whereas today we're more used to the browsing metaphor where the window "chrome" is separate from the content. I also don't think today it's useful to have the spatial metaphor, but it probably made more sense back then.
- rat87 2y ago
  People get way into this desktop metaphor. A window is a program window not an actual window. A folder is not the same as a folder in a filing cabinet and a save icon is a save icon not a floppy disk.they dont have to stand for or emulate physical things
  - 6510 2y ago
    I had my folders themed on win 95. It is kinda hard to explain but the color schemes and images trigger a lot of mental background processes related to the stuff in the folder. Just seeing a green grid on a black background would load a cached version of the folder in my head and alt-tab into a linked mental process that would continue where I left it.
    - dsego 2y ago
      I think we need more visual cues for common operations to give more assurance and reinforce the action. For example, recently I was trying to back up some photos from an android phone by plugging it into a windows machine and copying files over. I already had an older version copied from before, and I was surprised that the copy action resulted in the same number of files after I selected "skip" in the dialogue. What happened was that I probably tried to copy from windows to android by mistake. With everything looking the same it's easy to miss things and have the wrong mental model of what is about to happen. It would be great to have more feedback for actions like this, maybe show the full paths, show the disk/device icons with a big fat arrow for the copying direction or something. Basically the copy/move dialog is the same for 10 files and 10,000 files, same for copying between devices and within the folder... and it will happily overwrite any files if you click the wrong option by mistake. And unlike trashing files I am not sure it's possible to undo the action.
  - shadowgovt 2y ago
    Historically, it's both, which is how we got here. The Xerox demo was definitely trying to make near-as-possible 1-to-1 correspondences because their entire approach was "discovery is easier if the UI abstractions are couched in known physical abstractions." UIs that hewed very closely to the original Xerox demo did things like pop open one window per folder (because when you open a folder and there's a folder inside, you still have the original folder). As time went on and users became more comfortable with computerized abstractions in general, much of that fluff fell by the wayside. MacOSX system 7, for instance, would open one window per double-click by default; modern desktop MacOS opens a folder into the current window, with the option to command-double-click it to open it into its own... tab? (Thanks browsers; you made users comfortable enough with tabbed windows that this is a metaphor the file system browser can adopt!).

Spatial file placement is probably not even good on the desktop. In a file manager its definitely an antipattern

by rat87 2y ago

Spatial file placement is probably not even good on the desktop. In a file manager its definitely an antipattern

I think on earlier windows (95 maybe?) opening a folder would also always open in a new explorer window so you had the impression that the window is actually the folder you are opening. Whereas today we're more used to the browsing metaphor where the window "chrome" is separate from the content. I also don't think today it's useful to have the spatial metaphor, but it probably made more sense back then.

rat87 2y ago
People get way into this desktop metaphor. A window is a program window not an actual window. A folder is not the same as a folder in a filing cabinet and a save icon is a save icon not a floppy disk.they dont have to stand for or emulate physical things
- 6510 2y ago
  I had my folders themed on win 95. It is kinda hard to explain but the color schemes and images trigger a lot of mental background processes related to the stuff in the folder. Just seeing a green grid on a black background would load a cached version of the folder in my head and alt-tab into a linked mental process that would continue where I left it.
  - dsego 2y ago
    I think we need more visual cues for common operations to give more assurance and reinforce the action. For example, recently I was trying to back up some photos from an android phone by plugging it into a windows machine and copying files over. I already had an older version copied from before, and I was surprised that the copy action resulted in the same number of files after I selected "skip" in the dialogue. What happened was that I probably tried to copy from windows to android by mistake. With everything looking the same it's easy to miss things and have the wrong mental model of what is about to happen. It would be great to have more feedback for actions like this, maybe show the full paths, show the disk/device icons with a big fat arrow for the copying direction or something. Basically the copy/move dialog is the same for 10 files and 10,000 files, same for copying between devices and within the folder... and it will happily overwrite any files if you click the wrong option by mistake. And unlike trashing files I am not sure it's possible to undo the action.
- shadowgovt 2y ago
  Historically, it's both, which is how we got here. The Xerox demo was definitely trying to make near-as-possible 1-to-1 correspondences because their entire approach was "discovery is easier if the UI abstractions are couched in known physical abstractions." UIs that hewed very closely to the original Xerox demo did things like pop open one window per folder (because when you open a folder and there's a folder inside, you still have the original folder). As time went on and users became more comfortable with computerized abstractions in general, much of that fluff fell by the wayside. MacOSX system 7, for instance, would open one window per double-click by default; modern desktop MacOS opens a folder into the current window, with the option to command-double-click it to open it into its own... tab? (Thanks browsers; you made users comfortable enough with tabbed windows that this is a metaphor the file system browser can adopt!).