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Because anyone that ever built anything worthwhile in this field knows you have to give it your all, when starting out especially. Nobody gives their all for 5

Because anyone that ever built anything worthwhile in this field knows you have to give it your all, when starting out especially. Nobody gives their all for 5k/mo.

ithkuil 2y ago
Especially if more than half of that goes into taxes
- redrove 2y ago
  Oh, absolutely.
- lifestyleguru 2y ago
  Hey, but in return you receive government tokens which will pay back in worse times... if you satisfy a lot of conditions, and wait in many queues, and send many letters.
  - ithkuil 2y ago
    yeah nothing wrong about taxes. But you have to qualify when one discusses whether 5k eu month is a good pay or not.
- ta1243 2y ago
  $200k is €180k, in Germany you'd take home 57% or $112k. In California you'd take home $134k Not sure of the relative costs of housing in San Francisco vs Berlin, but it doesn't feel like a massive difference. Personally I'd rather live in Berlin on €112k net than San Francisco on $134k net
CorrectHorseBat 2y ago
I kinda disagree on both accounts. Many many people give their all for less than that. More money will get you better (foreign) talent, but the correlation between pay and effort is much lower. I work in the EU for an American company. The consensus here is Americans work more, but not harder. We deliver better work in less time. The edge Americans have is a can do attitude and not being afraid of failure.
- menaerus 2y ago
  If you want to attract the best people in the EU it's the fact, and not even for a discussion, that you have to pay them the good $$$. Those people are found in places where the most complex infrastructure software is being built. And that is for worse or for the better is only found in FAANG or HFT or similar very large-scale software where even saving a few cents per line of code is bringing big profits to the company. How many such EU-based products are out there? Your perspective of "delivering more work in less time" is cute. Put yourself in a pool of 95th percentile of engineers on the market and you will soon find that your experience is not representative.
  - CorrectHorseBat 2y ago
    It looks like you're agreeing with me that it has nothing to do with bending over backwards?
    - menaerus 2y ago
      I do not. Even with those skills you're still looking for a lot of hours to burn in. It only happens that those skills are more or less a prerequisite for more chance of success.
yread 2y ago
give it your all is good way to a burnout. If you want to build a "cloud" it's gonna be 5+ yrs, a marathon not a sprint, you need to work sustainably

Because anyone that ever built anything worthwhile in this field knows you have to give it your all, when starting out especially. Nobody gives their all for 5k/mo.

ithkuil 2y ago

Especially if more than half of that goes into taxes

redrove 2y ago
Oh, absolutely.
lifestyleguru 2y ago
Hey, but in return you receive government tokens which will pay back in worse times... if you satisfy a lot of conditions, and wait in many queues, and send many letters.
- ithkuil 2y ago
  yeah nothing wrong about taxes. But you have to qualify when one discusses whether 5k eu month is a good pay or not.
ta1243 2y ago
$200k is €180k, in Germany you'd take home 57% or $112k. In California you'd take home $134k Not sure of the relative costs of housing in San Francisco vs Berlin, but it doesn't feel like a massive difference. Personally I'd rather live in Berlin on €112k net than San Francisco on $134k net

CorrectHorseBat 2y ago

I kinda disagree on both accounts. Many many people give their all for less than that. More money will get you better (foreign) talent, but the correlation between pay and effort is much lower. I work in the EU for an American company. The consensus here is Americans work more, but not harder. We deliver better work in less time. The edge Americans have is a can do attitude and not being afraid of failure.

menaerus 2y ago
If you want to attract the best people in the EU it's the fact, and not even for a discussion, that you have to pay them the good $$$. Those people are found in places where the most complex infrastructure software is being built. And that is for worse or for the better is only found in FAANG or HFT or similar very large-scale software where even saving a few cents per line of code is bringing big profits to the company. How many such EU-based products are out there? Your perspective of "delivering more work in less time" is cute. Put yourself in a pool of 95th percentile of engineers on the market and you will soon find that your experience is not representative.
- CorrectHorseBat 2y ago
  It looks like you're agreeing with me that it has nothing to do with bending over backwards?
  - menaerus 2y ago
    I do not. Even with those skills you're still looking for a lot of hours to burn in. It only happens that those skills are more or less a prerequisite for more chance of success.

yread 2y ago

give it your all is good way to a burnout. If you want to build a "cloud" it's gonna be 5+ yrs, a marathon not a sprint, you need to work sustainably