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Am i weird in that this feels kind of normal (im not american)? Protests should be protected, but i normally assume protestors get permits, and a reasonable po

Am i weird in that this feels kind of normal (im not american)? Protests should be protected, but i normally assume protestors get permits, and a reasonable police presence is around. Not to intimidate anyone, but just to make sure nobody gets too rowdy, keep protestors and counter-protestors away from each other (to prevent violence), provide aid if anyone gets hurt (big masses of people is always a trample risk). Otherwise just do normal crowd control sort of things. If they were surveiling individuals who participated afterwards, maybe that would be something, but it seems like (according to the article) all they were doing was keeping track of when protests were happening. Protests are not private events. They are literally the most non-private event possible. That is the entire point. I dont think there is any reasonable expectation of privacy in terms of time&date of demonstrations.

aprilthird2021 2y ago
Yeah it's a tool, the use of it will show the issue. For example if they only surveil certain types of protests and not others. Another worrying element of protest surveillance is the documented practice of sending in provocateurs who commit violence or break stuff or cause problems to allow a pretense for crackdowns.
chakintosh 2y ago
> but i normally assume protestors get permits, Good luck obtaining a permit for a Gaza protest from people in Israel's payroll.
- bawolff 2y ago
  In most democracies there are rules about being fair in terms of issuing permits and a court system where you can sue if they aren't fair in issuing permits.
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > In most democracies there are rules about being fair in terms of issuing permits and a court system where you can sue if they aren't fair in issuing permits. But this does not guarantee that you will get a permit.
diegolas 2y ago
> but i normally assume protestors get permits can't help but find this hilarious (also not american either)
- bawolff 2y ago
  That is kind of the central idea of democracy. Instead of revolution and all its upheavel & damage, you get a mini controlled revolution every 4 years. Instead of unmitigated riots, you get demonstrations but with some crowd control & beurocracy to prevent injuries (and well chaos, riots and looting). Democracy is kind of a deal - you get to have the popular discontent but without the extreme forms that end up damaging bystanders.
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > That is kind of the central idea of democracy. What you are describing here, are the requirements. The implementation, is usually, much, much different.

aprilthird2021 2y ago

Yeah it's a tool, the use of it will show the issue. For example if they only surveil certain types of protests and not others. Another worrying element of protest surveillance is the documented practice of sending in provocateurs who commit violence or break stuff or cause problems to allow a pretense for crackdowns.

chakintosh 2y ago

> but i normally assume protestors get permits, Good luck obtaining a permit for a Gaza protest from people in Israel's payroll.

bawolff 2y ago
In most democracies there are rules about being fair in terms of issuing permits and a court system where you can sue if they aren't fair in issuing permits.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > In most democracies there are rules about being fair in terms of issuing permits and a court system where you can sue if they aren't fair in issuing permits. But this does not guarantee that you will get a permit.

diegolas 2y ago

> but i normally assume protestors get permits can't help but find this hilarious (also not american either)

bawolff 2y ago
That is kind of the central idea of democracy. Instead of revolution and all its upheavel & damage, you get a mini controlled revolution every 4 years. Instead of unmitigated riots, you get demonstrations but with some crowd control & beurocracy to prevent injuries (and well chaos, riots and looting). Democracy is kind of a deal - you get to have the popular discontent but without the extreme forms that end up damaging bystanders.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > That is kind of the central idea of democracy. What you are describing here, are the requirements. The implementation, is usually, much, much different.