4 ms·

It is worth reflecting on group dynamics - every group has a small core of members who set the standards for everyone else. They can reform the group. No-one el

• derektank 2y ago
  Yes, I think the story of Catholicism actually points to the idea that ignoring or even defying the norms of your community as part of an effort to form an alternative community is often more effective than trying to stick it out long enough to earn the clout to reform it. Luther's 95 theses were distributed in 1517 but the Catholic Church did not seriously reform their use until the Council of Trent in 1563, when their sale was banned. By that point a fifth of Europe was Protestant.
  • gostsamo 2y ago
    There were a few reform movements before that with a bit more mixed results. See the cathari and Jan Hus.
  • ashoeafoot 2y ago
    You made a important point for academic reform their. Regularly allowing for fast, unbeaucrati domation of groups and auto dissolving already formed hierarchical structures would help. The reactor internals cant be allowed to stratify.
• AStonesThrow 2y ago
  Perhaps Science and Religion are undergoing some sort of schism. Looking back several hundred years, the universities that were forming priests were also educating the elite and turning out polymaths. Perhaps there is a blossoming of specialization in these latter days, where kids don't need church or a noble family to put them on track for some really heady science work. In fact university systems are practically religions unto themselves, with perceptible and distinctive campus cultures, Greek fraternity/sorority and what have you clubs to join, there is certainly a churchy blueprint being followed in education. It seems to me that religion and medicine and architecture and other various sciences were tightly intertwined. It's why the reactionary Christians are rejecting Science qua Science and Scientism, because if science is not subject to religious ethics or morals, then science has power that church doesn't. I don't know about Asia and the rest of the world, but seeing as the Catholic Church set up systems such as universities and hospitals, it's altogether unsurprising that religion is woven into the DNA of those disciplines even as they secularize and syncretize.
  • verisimi 2y ago
    > Perhaps Science and Religion are undergoing some sort of schism. There's no schism. Religion and science are both ostensibly attempting to describe the underlying truth. The issue is that any institution/engine that has money/power, will obviously attract people that want money and power too, truth be damned. The idea that the institution is about 'uncovering truth' is certainly given lip service/held as an article of faith as this is required by the naive masses to invest themselves in to the idea (science/religion), but the underlying reality is a somewhat dirtier political jostling for money/power.
    • hiAndrewQuinn 2y ago
      Yup, this is why I never join truth-seeking organizations. You'd be amazed how many people are only motivated to find the truth because they want to turn it to some profitable use somehow. Thank goodness number theory has no practical applications whatsoever.
      • 2y ago
• keybored 2y ago
  > Groups display some sad behaviours where most of the members know that what they are doing but the leadership is committed to something silly so they go along anyway. Sometimes it gets bad enough that they quit the group, but that is all they can do since most never have a chance at reforming it. This turns up formally in corporations (the executive team have the power to reform) but that is actually just a mirror of a natural social dynamic. It’s weird how people talk about our modern very unnatural corporations and how they behave and then rush to insist that it’s all a reflection of totally natural and organic stuff. Yeah I think they doth insist too much.