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"There are many people" is a useless platitude to any number of people who fall through the cracks. Personally I had to wait until I was 25 to get some loans I

"There are many people" is a useless platitude to any number of people who fall through the cracks. Personally I had to wait until I was 25 to get some loans I needed to finally finish a degree, because my family was paper rich, wasn't paying anything, but was still on speaking / visiting terms with me. The system doesn't accept that as an answer; you have to show an extreme degree of alienation / separation (I can't remember the specifics, but a loan counsellor basically told me to give up).

southernplaces7 2y ago
>There are many people" is a useless platitude to any number of people who fall through the cracks. And so too is "any number of people who fall through the cracks". For any given situation or context in which the vast majority fare okay at least, there will be a certain number who fall through the cracks (just as there will be some who do very well) and you can't design all the rules around a system to completely eliminate the possibility of falling through the cracks, or at least you cant without risking externalities that make some key part of it worse for many more people. As a criticism of any complex system, pointing out unusual worst cases is usually little more than a sort of useless hand-wringing for the sake of doing so, unless one has a solution to propose.
- telchior 2y ago
  I agree with the idea that you can't get rid of all the cracks, and I'm not particularly salty that I did manage to fall through one of them (for a while). It's just one minor problem in, as you said, a complex system that is full of them, as all systems are. However, I think you're descending a sort of contemptuous name-calling with the "useless hand-wringing for the sake of doing so", considering that the subject was an attempt to make a very large change to the way the system works. That change was rejected (and, as the OP to my comment said, called by many "hysterics"), but it was nonetheless a proposed solution. Now... we're in the process of a massive change of a very different type, with the DoE getting chopped into pieces and universities being threatened (very vaguely for now, since the focus is still on other areas, but I think there's no doubt that their time will come if the current admin can maintain its momentum). In general, the populace is aware that there are quite a lot of cracks and is, in the haphazard way that democracies do things, trying to apply solutions.

southernplaces7 2y ago

>There are many people" is a useless platitude to any number of people who fall through the cracks. And so too is "any number of people who fall through the cracks". For any given situation or context in which the vast majority fare okay at least, there will be a certain number who fall through the cracks (just as there will be some who do very well) and you can't design all the rules around a system to completely eliminate the possibility of falling through the cracks, or at least you cant without risking externalities that make some key part of it worse for many more people. As a criticism of any complex system, pointing out unusual worst cases is usually little more than a sort of useless hand-wringing for the sake of doing so, unless one has a solution to propose.

telchior 2y ago
I agree with the idea that you can't get rid of all the cracks, and I'm not particularly salty that I did manage to fall through one of them (for a while). It's just one minor problem in, as you said, a complex system that is full of them, as all systems are. However, I think you're descending a sort of contemptuous name-calling with the "useless hand-wringing for the sake of doing so", considering that the subject was an attempt to make a very large change to the way the system works. That change was rejected (and, as the OP to my comment said, called by many "hysterics"), but it was nonetheless a proposed solution. Now... we're in the process of a massive change of a very different type, with the DoE getting chopped into pieces and universities being threatened (very vaguely for now, since the focus is still on other areas, but I think there's no doubt that their time will come if the current admin can maintain its momentum). In general, the populace is aware that there are quite a lot of cracks and is, in the haphazard way that democracies do things, trying to apply solutions.