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The Chimera folks seem to be confused and/or out of date. The optimum way [1] to build thousands of RISC-V packages has been on real hardware, not in emulation
by brucehoult 2y ago
The Chimera folks seem to be confused and/or out of date.
The optimum way [1] to build thousands of RISC-V packages has been on real hardware, not in emulation, ever since the VisionFive 2 came out just over two years ago, at approximately 1/7th the price of the HiFive Unmatched they mention (which came out almost 4 years ago in May 2021).
Emulation is convenient if you already have a honking x86, and it's not already busy doing other things. e.g. typically your own desktop computer. But that doesn't scale.
It takes three to four $100 VisionFive 2s to get the same overall build performance as a $1500 i9-13900 or 14900 or Ryzen 9 7950x running RISC-V code in docker/qemu.
You can use resources more efficiently with a single machine with a lot of cores and a lot of RAM, and it's convenient. The Milk-V Pioneer with 64 2.0 GHz OoO RISC-V cores and 128 GB RAM, available since January 2024, fits that bill, but they also dismiss it because it costs $2500 as a preassembled machine (or $1500 just for motherboard with CPU, BYO RAM and storage and case/ps). But you'd spend $5000 or $6000 on x86 to get the same total throughput in emulation of RISC-V.
The same update says they just bought an Ampere Altra to support arm64. They don't say what that cost, but I believe it's going to be minimum $4000.
[1] if you don't mind a little more setup (which the Chimera people do) then the optimum optimum way is to run the build scripts and random tools themselves in RISC-V code on either real hardware or in emulation, but distcc the actual C/C++ compiles out to a cross-compiler running native on x86 or Apple (or Ampere). That gives a very significant speedup (up to 10x) over emulation or current RISC-V hardware, while retaining the ability to build even the most complex packages without problems.
- rollcat 2y agoI stand corrected about the high-end state of the art; TBH I haven't been following the developments in a long while. But the device in question clearly looks low-end to me. I would love to see it benchmarked against a contemporary mid-range Thinkpad or Macbook running RISC-V in emulation.
- brucehoult 2y agoSure, it's low end. But emulation carries a high burden. Here are some figures from my own tests (except the Pioneer), compiling a RISC-V Linux kernel version from December 7 using defconfig. All "native" builds on either RISC-V hardware or else RISC-V Ubuntu 20.04 running in emulation (qemu) in docker. 4m35s $2500 Milk-V Pioneer 64x THead C910 @2.0 GHz 19m13s $1600 Lenovo Legion Pro 5i i9-13900HX 2023 (24 core) 67m35s $100 VisionFive 2 4x SiFive U74 @1.5 GHz 69m16s $900 Mac Mini M1 (4P + 4E cores) 70m57s $90 Lichee Pi 3A 8x Spacemit X60 @1.6 GHz 143m20s $800 Lenovo Ryzen 5 4500U laptop (6 cores Zen 2)
- brucehoult 2y agoI’m pleased to say that the Chimera folk persisted, got access to a $2500 64 core 128 GB RAM RISC-V workstation, the Milk-V Pioneer, and successfully built their distro from scratch in a reasonable time, and have reinstated RISC-V at the same level as LoongArch. Congratulations! https://chimera-linux.org/news/2025/03/new-riscv-server.html https://chimera-linux.org/news/2025/03/new-riscv-server.html