5 ms·

It's a good move but blanket 200k may mean that a kid from a well-off family in Iowa with a 150k income is able to get free tution while a kid with not so well

It's a good move but blanket 200k may mean that a kid from a well-off family in Iowa with a 150k income is able to get free tution while a kid with not so well off family in California with a 210k income is unable to get free tution. Income as a number doesn't have much meaning until Cost of living is taken into account.

Aurornis 2y ago
Tuition assistance isn't a binary all-or-nothing. Every university like this uses a sliding scale. In this case, their scale slides to the point that under $200K family income you pay nothing for tuition. Under $100K they'll even cover food and housing.
elicksaur 2y ago
Yes cost of living does matter. But I’ve also never met or heard of a $200k household that I wouldn’t consider “well off”. Typically, stories about these “not well off” yet “over double the median income” households are budgeting issues. People don’t like to admit that because most people blame external forces instead of evaluating their own choices.
- FloorEgg 2y ago
  Multiple kids + unexpected chronic health issues can quickly change this equation. And before you go judging someone for having multiple kids, consider that a) demographic collapse is probably very bad and we don't want our society to make having kids exceptionally hard, rather than the default norm and b) people may decide to have kids without expecting significant and rapid changes to inflation and cost of living.
  - CaliforniaKarl 2y ago
    This is one of the reasons why—although university admissions and financial aid has lots of paperwork—there is still a major human element. This is explicitly mentioned on the FAFSA's web site: https://studentaid.gov/help/reporting-special-financial-circumstances https://studentaid.gov/help/reporting-special-financial-circ...
  - almosthere 2y ago
    The vast majority of people at 200k+ and "not doing well" are suffering from self inflicted budget issues.
    - FloorEgg 2y ago
      How do you know?
  - Der_Einzige 2y ago
    Often those "chronic health issues" (obviously not you specifically) are related to poor health choices that are easily fixable. In a world with easy access to Ozempic/Wegovy/Zepbound, many have no excuses in the 200K+ club for not fixing that. Basically, budgeting issues for the body.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    Kids don't cost that much tbh. It's not as if having 2 kids vs 4 kids makes $100k vs $200k the same
    - FloorEgg 2y ago
      Do you have four kids and live in a city?
- hedgehog 2y ago
  It depends on location. In San Francisco a mortgage on a median house might be over $80k/year and child care for a young kid $20k-$30k/year. Then $50k in taxes, assume two kids, that's maybe $180k and we haven't even bought groceries yet. Or healthcare.
  - zeroonetwothree 2y ago
    It seems unlikely you are spending $30k on child at the same time as you are sending kids to college. Not many families have such an age gap. Getting a mortgage that is 40% of your income is fairly irresponsible (I’m sure it does happen though). You also didn’t count property tax which is probably like $20k
    - hedgehog 2y ago
      The comment I replied to implies that all $200k income families are "well off". I think this is a reasonable counterexample, and in SF tuition assistance for childcare includes families up to a little more than $200k so the city government appears to agree.
    - wombatpm 2y ago
      Divorce and remarriage create lots of nonsensical situations.
    - closeparen 2y ago
      Yes, it would be extremely irresponsible for a family making $200k to buy even a very bad house in the Bay Area. The bottom rung of the home-owning middle class is much higher than that.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    Okay but renting a normal sized place would be $60k. Then child care for a young kid. Then taxes. If both kids are in childcare, fine, but childcare costs go away after they go to school. It's very doable with money left over
    - 2y ago
- closeparen 2y ago
  You would need to set aside $10-15k a year for 18 years, depending on the interest rate, to accumulate $320,000 in cash for 4 years at an $80k school at full freight. A family making $200k in California takes home about $130k, so call it about 10% of their net income over the child's lifetime. That's some pretty significant budgeting!
jghn 2y ago
Besides the obvious that there needs to be some sort of cutoff, it's more of a socioeconomic angle, not economic. By doing it this way it also encourages a larger geographic distribution and thus a wider range of background demographics.
aprilthird2021 2y ago
To make matters worse, a kid from a well off family in Iowa is way likelier to stand out and get admission to such colleges than a kid from California, especially the bay area, where smart kids from well off families are common and standing out is hard.
WeylandYutani 2y ago
Yeah my definition of not well off is minimum wage. Maybe I am wrong here and Starbucks is really paying barristas 200k per year IDK?

Aurornis 2y ago

Tuition assistance isn't a binary all-or-nothing. Every university like this uses a sliding scale. In this case, their scale slides to the point that under $200K family income you pay nothing for tuition. Under $100K they'll even cover food and housing.

elicksaur 2y ago

Yes cost of living does matter. But I’ve also never met or heard of a $200k household that I wouldn’t consider “well off”. Typically, stories about these “not well off” yet “over double the median income” households are budgeting issues. People don’t like to admit that because most people blame external forces instead of evaluating their own choices.

FloorEgg 2y ago
Multiple kids + unexpected chronic health issues can quickly change this equation. And before you go judging someone for having multiple kids, consider that a) demographic collapse is probably very bad and we don't want our society to make having kids exceptionally hard, rather than the default norm and b) people may decide to have kids without expecting significant and rapid changes to inflation and cost of living.
- CaliforniaKarl 2y ago
  This is one of the reasons why—although university admissions and financial aid has lots of paperwork—there is still a major human element. This is explicitly mentioned on the FAFSA's web site: https://studentaid.gov/help/reporting-special-financial-circumstances https://studentaid.gov/help/reporting-special-financial-circ...
- almosthere 2y ago
  The vast majority of people at 200k+ and "not doing well" are suffering from self inflicted budget issues.
  - FloorEgg 2y ago
    How do you know?
- Der_Einzige 2y ago
  Often those "chronic health issues" (obviously not you specifically) are related to poor health choices that are easily fixable. In a world with easy access to Ozempic/Wegovy/Zepbound, many have no excuses in the 200K+ club for not fixing that. Basically, budgeting issues for the body.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  Kids don't cost that much tbh. It's not as if having 2 kids vs 4 kids makes $100k vs $200k the same
  - FloorEgg 2y ago
    Do you have four kids and live in a city?
hedgehog 2y ago
It depends on location. In San Francisco a mortgage on a median house might be over $80k/year and child care for a young kid $20k-$30k/year. Then $50k in taxes, assume two kids, that's maybe $180k and we haven't even bought groceries yet. Or healthcare.
- zeroonetwothree 2y ago
  It seems unlikely you are spending $30k on child at the same time as you are sending kids to college. Not many families have such an age gap. Getting a mortgage that is 40% of your income is fairly irresponsible (I’m sure it does happen though). You also didn’t count property tax which is probably like $20k
  - hedgehog 2y ago
    The comment I replied to implies that all $200k income families are "well off". I think this is a reasonable counterexample, and in SF tuition assistance for childcare includes families up to a little more than $200k so the city government appears to agree.
  - wombatpm 2y ago
    Divorce and remarriage create lots of nonsensical situations.
  - closeparen 2y ago
    Yes, it would be extremely irresponsible for a family making $200k to buy even a very bad house in the Bay Area. The bottom rung of the home-owning middle class is much higher than that.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  Okay but renting a normal sized place would be $60k. Then child care for a young kid. Then taxes. If both kids are in childcare, fine, but childcare costs go away after they go to school. It's very doable with money left over
  - 2y ago
closeparen 2y ago
You would need to set aside $10-15k a year for 18 years, depending on the interest rate, to accumulate $320,000 in cash for 4 years at an $80k school at full freight. A family making $200k in California takes home about $130k, so call it about 10% of their net income over the child's lifetime. That's some pretty significant budgeting!

jghn 2y ago

Besides the obvious that there needs to be some sort of cutoff, it's more of a socioeconomic angle, not economic. By doing it this way it also encourages a larger geographic distribution and thus a wider range of background demographics.

aprilthird2021 2y ago

To make matters worse, a kid from a well off family in Iowa is way likelier to stand out and get admission to such colleges than a kid from California, especially the bay area, where smart kids from well off families are common and standing out is hard.

WeylandYutani 2y ago

Yeah my definition of not well off is minimum wage. Maybe I am wrong here and Starbucks is really paying barristas 200k per year IDK?