4 ms·

If we give up we're wrecked, should still aim for it.

glitchc 2y ago
Prove it. What you are asking for is certain economic ruin at the expense of a nebulous climate goal. Can you guarantee that humans will be better off? Because I can guarantee setious, perhaps permanent, economic hardship in trying.
- ZeroGravitas 2y ago
  The UK has a Carbon Budget that goes into this in detail and just released their 7th budget. https://www.theccc.org.uk/publication/the-seventh-carbon-budget/ https://www.theccc.org.uk/publication/the-seventh-carbon-bud... > We estimate that the net costs of Net Zero will be around 0.2% of UK GDP per year on average in our pathway, with investment upfront leading to net savings during the Seventh Carbon Budget period. Much of this investment is expected to come from the private sector.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  You should look at the Permian-Triassic mass extinction to see the effect of prolonged unrestricted CO2 emission. The equatorial ocean was so hot no vertebrate life could exist there.
  - wtcactus 2y ago
    I’m pretty sure UK contribution to the CO2 emissions is negligible. Europe should aim for net Zero as soon as China also gets there.
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      Well you stopped claiming the goal was "nebulous", at least. UK emission is about 1% of global emissions. China is rapidly expanding its renewable capacity, much faster even than they are expanding nuclear.
    - ZeroGravitas 2y ago
      China has a Net Zero goal since 2020 targetting 2060 with an interim target of peaking emissions by 2030 but they'll probably hit them early given their recent momentum. They are supposed to be releasing new NDC targets about now as well.
      - pfdietz 2y ago
        Net Zero includes CO2 being absorbed by the oceans, right? This means in the longer term CO2 emission has to drop even lower, as this reservoir (the ocean surface waters) saturates and CO2 absorption decreases.
- Hnrobert42 2y ago
  How will you guarantee this? What do I get if you are wrong? A snorkle?
- fuddle 2y ago
  > Because I can guarantee setious, perhaps permanent, economic hardship in trying. Prove it.
- avmich 2y ago
  No, no, no, we're asking a certain economic benefit at the expense of reasonable steps towards it - not even too hard steps, the COVID shock has shown the possibilities. Of course I can guarantee the humans will be better off - as in, for example, better air is better - but your guarantee (as in, proof it can't be done without it) of serious, perhaps permanent hardship is pure illusion with no justification at all.
  - gottorf 2y ago
    > not even too hard steps, the COVID shock has shown the possibilities What? There's a good argument to be made that the current geopolitical instabilities would never have happened without the collective shock of Covid to everyone's psyches. No event was more disruptive in the past few decades than Covid. It's unimaginable to call that "not even too hard".
- tm-infringement 2y ago
  Read. https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2022/06/SR15_Chapter_3_LR.pdf https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2022/06/SR15...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

Prove it. What you are asking for is certain economic ruin at the expense of a nebulous climate goal. Can you guarantee that humans will be better off? Because I can guarantee setious, perhaps permanent, economic hardship in trying.

ZeroGravitas 2y ago
The UK has a Carbon Budget that goes into this in detail and just released their 7th budget. https://www.theccc.org.uk/publication/the-seventh-carbon-budget/ https://www.theccc.org.uk/publication/the-seventh-carbon-bud... > We estimate that the net costs of Net Zero will be around 0.2% of UK GDP per year on average in our pathway, with investment upfront leading to net savings during the Seventh Carbon Budget period. Much of this investment is expected to come from the private sector.
pfdietz 2y ago
You should look at the Permian-Triassic mass extinction to see the effect of prolonged unrestricted CO2 emission. The equatorial ocean was so hot no vertebrate life could exist there.
- wtcactus 2y ago
  I’m pretty sure UK contribution to the CO2 emissions is negligible. Europe should aim for net Zero as soon as China also gets there.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    Well you stopped claiming the goal was "nebulous", at least. UK emission is about 1% of global emissions. China is rapidly expanding its renewable capacity, much faster even than they are expanding nuclear.
  - ZeroGravitas 2y ago
    China has a Net Zero goal since 2020 targetting 2060 with an interim target of peaking emissions by 2030 but they'll probably hit them early given their recent momentum. They are supposed to be releasing new NDC targets about now as well.
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      Net Zero includes CO2 being absorbed by the oceans, right? This means in the longer term CO2 emission has to drop even lower, as this reservoir (the ocean surface waters) saturates and CO2 absorption decreases.
Hnrobert42 2y ago
How will you guarantee this? What do I get if you are wrong? A snorkle?
fuddle 2y ago
> Because I can guarantee setious, perhaps permanent, economic hardship in trying. Prove it.
avmich 2y ago
No, no, no, we're asking a certain economic benefit at the expense of reasonable steps towards it - not even too hard steps, the COVID shock has shown the possibilities. Of course I can guarantee the humans will be better off - as in, for example, better air is better - but your guarantee (as in, proof it can't be done without it) of serious, perhaps permanent hardship is pure illusion with no justification at all.
- gottorf 2y ago
  > not even too hard steps, the COVID shock has shown the possibilities What? There's a good argument to be made that the current geopolitical instabilities would never have happened without the collective shock of Covid to everyone's psyches. No event was more disruptive in the past few decades than Covid. It's unimaginable to call that "not even too hard".
tm-infringement 2y ago
Read. https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2022/06/SR15_Chapter_3_LR.pdf https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2022/06/SR15...
deleted 2y ago
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