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Taking a guess based on the text in the cited intro, I wonder if the problem wasn't one of copyright, but one of credit. Even in a group that doesn't care abou

Taking a guess based on the text in the cited intro, I wonder if the problem wasn't one of copyright, but one of credit. Even in a group that doesn't care about copyright at all, it'd be tacky to copy someone else's code and not credit them, or to pretend it's all your own work.

warpspin 2y ago
> Taking a guess based on the text in the cited intro, I wonder if the problem wasn't one of copyright, but one of credit. Might be true. Not familiar with Amiga scene but the following actions were always mostly ok in the European C64 scene, provided credit was given to original author: * Re-using music in whole * Re-using fonts * SOMETIMES re-using small parts of graphics It always was not ok and considered "stealing" to re-use complete demo routines though for example. People did get away (reputation wise) with re-using code routines for tools, though, provided credits where given and the re-released tool somehow improved on the original. Another thing which many people disliked for example was re-using "instruments" from music, even when melodies changed. While the players were mostly open tooling, specific instruments/sounds for those players still had to be crafted first and I witnessed a couple of conflicts when people reused the instruments. Nothing was written in stone, though. A concept such like licenses did not exist.
- chrismcb 2y ago
  It was rare to reuse graphics, even fonts. But music was a bit more reusable with credit of course. It also depended on your group, but most groups had an artist, not every group had a musician.
  - TacticalCoder 2y ago
    And many of the original intros, before the term "cracktro" was even coined and which predates demos (demos were standalone), would often reuse music from games and not music from other intros. So those plundering the digital high seas would not only remove copy protection and write an "intro" to both boast about it and show their coding skills, they'd also steal music from commercial games. And they were the OGs: the demoscene only came after the work (a bit shady of a work but a work nonetheless) of these pioneers.
aleph_minus_one 2y ago
This sounds like an important aspect. Another one that in my opinion distinguishes the scene behaviour from the classical copyright system is that the latter allows the copyright holder to use the state violence to squeeze out damage payment from copyright infringers. Applying this kind of violence seems not to be accepted in the scene.
- Agingcoder 2y ago
  Well it’s just that there was public shaming if found out, which is just as violent in a small group of people in which everything is based on reputation.
account42 2y ago
Yes, you also see this in the scientific community where it is the norm to build onto others' work without explicit permission but not citing that work is unthinkable.

warpspin 2y ago

> Taking a guess based on the text in the cited intro, I wonder if the problem wasn't one of copyright, but one of credit. Might be true. Not familiar with Amiga scene but the following actions were always mostly ok in the European C64 scene, provided credit was given to original author: * Re-using music in whole * Re-using fonts * SOMETIMES re-using small parts of graphics It always was not ok and considered "stealing" to re-use complete demo routines though for example. People did get away (reputation wise) with re-using code routines for tools, though, provided credits where given and the re-released tool somehow improved on the original. Another thing which many people disliked for example was re-using "instruments" from music, even when melodies changed. While the players were mostly open tooling, specific instruments/sounds for those players still had to be crafted first and I witnessed a couple of conflicts when people reused the instruments. Nothing was written in stone, though. A concept such like licenses did not exist.

chrismcb 2y ago
It was rare to reuse graphics, even fonts. But music was a bit more reusable with credit of course. It also depended on your group, but most groups had an artist, not every group had a musician.
- TacticalCoder 2y ago
  And many of the original intros, before the term "cracktro" was even coined and which predates demos (demos were standalone), would often reuse music from games and not music from other intros. So those plundering the digital high seas would not only remove copy protection and write an "intro" to both boast about it and show their coding skills, they'd also steal music from commercial games. And they were the OGs: the demoscene only came after the work (a bit shady of a work but a work nonetheless) of these pioneers.

aleph_minus_one 2y ago

This sounds like an important aspect. Another one that in my opinion distinguishes the scene behaviour from the classical copyright system is that the latter allows the copyright holder to use the state violence to squeeze out damage payment from copyright infringers. Applying this kind of violence seems not to be accepted in the scene.

Agingcoder 2y ago
Well it’s just that there was public shaming if found out, which is just as violent in a small group of people in which everything is based on reputation.

account42 2y ago

Yes, you also see this in the scientific community where it is the norm to build onto others' work without explicit permission but not citing that work is unthinkable.