4 ms·

not enough housing, too many landlords.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
falcor84 2y ago
Isn't the issue about there being too few landlords? I recall growing up in a time when it seemed that pretty much anyone in the middle class could become a landlord as a venue of investment, and many would. But nowadays, at least where I live, it seems that very few people choose that, and the ones who do make it almost a second job, with multiple places they rent out. And at the same time, it seems that more and more properties are owned by firms. TFA briefly mentions regulatory barriers to becoming a landlord; I wonder if that could be a significant part of the issue.
- jltsiren 2y ago
  I think the ease of becoming a landlord was a big part of the problem. Or at least how it started. If middle class households buying rental properties can outbid lower middle class households trying to buy a home, the lower middle class household will often be stuck renting in the long term. And if it makes financial sense for a middle class household to become a landlord, rich individuals and institutional investors will eventually notice it and outbid them. Market-rate rentals should be the exception, not the norm. Some of them are necessary to house people who have recently moved in the area, especially if they don't expect to stay in the long term. But because market-rate rental units largely displace owner-occupied units, having too many of them is bad for the society.
  - fc417fc802 2y ago
    > outbid lower middle class households trying to buy a home, the lower middle class household will often be stuck renting in the long term. If the market is working properly then additional units will be built until the price begins to drop. If there are buyers at a viable price then you should expect there to be sellers. What you are describing is a lack of liquidity. That shouldn't happen in the typical case unless there is bad policy.
    - jltsiren 2y ago
      Bad policy seems to be the typical case. People can't even agree on what is good policy. Expecting them to implement good policy consistently is just unrealistic. Meanwhile, as we wait for the elusive capitalist utopia, there are real-world issues that should be solved. The solutions will likely involve policy changes. Which will likely have both positive and negative outcomes. And the negative outcomes will probably require further policy changes in the future.
      - fc417fc802 2y ago
        > The solutions will likely involve policy changes. We're in agreement. My point was that the issue is due to policy. Landlords aren't the problem. Getting rid of landlords would at best be a tiny bandaid and you'd have to change policy to do it so you might as well just address the root cause.
- tonyedgecombe 2y ago
  Both types of landlord have their own problems. Personally I’d prefer the state to own more properties.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I've had some annoying landlords, but I would take every one over Trump. People tend to imagine a counterfactual where the state is idealized instead of looking at the state they have.
    - saikia81 2y ago
      in the Netherlands the state managed housing is the best. While private renters skirt their responsibilities, and enforcing a contractual is hard.
gruez 2y ago
>too many landlords. Unless you want "buy" (as opposed to "rent") to be the only option for housing, you need landlords. If there's going to be landlords, you want more of them, because more supply translates to lower prices for consumers. Nobody complains about there being too many farmers, for instance.
- swagasaurus-rex 2y ago
  I'd like to buy. My father bought his first house when he was 23. He came from poverty and had a middle-class job. I'm ten years older than he was and I still can't afford a house.
  - Analemma_ 2y ago
    Your beef isn’t with landlords, it’s with the single-family homeowners in your area who use every available legal and extralegal angle to block any new construction, because “it would change the neighborhood character”. They fuck you over and get to absolve themselves of blame and guilt by talking about evil developers and landlords as a smokescreen to keep you from seeing that they are the problem.
    - swagasaurus-rex 2y ago
      As much as I'd like to agree, nationwide the prices of housing has skyrocketed. In the last 5 years, there's been a 50% increase in home prices where now $450,000 is the median home price. Can it be that the issue you're describing explains what's happening in every single state? Has development stalled all across the USA (and abroad) simply due to regulation?
      - thereisnospork 2y ago
        >Can it be that the issue you're describing explains what's happening in every single state? Has development stalled all across the USA (and abroad) simply due to regulation? I mean this is pretty trivially true, excepting some markets like Japan. 100-200 thousand dollars of wood and drywall and concrete sells for 0.5 to 2 million in much of the country. People (builders) haven't started hating money, they just aren't allowed to build. Heck if it were legal I'd personally find some investors, buy up a few 1 million dollar sfh's and replace them with 8 500k condos each.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Isn't the issue about there being too few landlords? I recall growing up in a time when it seemed that pretty much anyone in the middle class could become a landlord as a venue of investment, and many would. But nowadays, at least where I live, it seems that very few people choose that, and the ones who do make it almost a second job, with multiple places they rent out. And at the same time, it seems that more and more properties are owned by firms. TFA briefly mentions regulatory barriers to becoming a landlord; I wonder if that could be a significant part of the issue.

jltsiren 2y ago
I think the ease of becoming a landlord was a big part of the problem. Or at least how it started. If middle class households buying rental properties can outbid lower middle class households trying to buy a home, the lower middle class household will often be stuck renting in the long term. And if it makes financial sense for a middle class household to become a landlord, rich individuals and institutional investors will eventually notice it and outbid them. Market-rate rentals should be the exception, not the norm. Some of them are necessary to house people who have recently moved in the area, especially if they don't expect to stay in the long term. But because market-rate rental units largely displace owner-occupied units, having too many of them is bad for the society.
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  > outbid lower middle class households trying to buy a home, the lower middle class household will often be stuck renting in the long term. If the market is working properly then additional units will be built until the price begins to drop. If there are buyers at a viable price then you should expect there to be sellers. What you are describing is a lack of liquidity. That shouldn't happen in the typical case unless there is bad policy.
  - jltsiren 2y ago
    Bad policy seems to be the typical case. People can't even agree on what is good policy. Expecting them to implement good policy consistently is just unrealistic. Meanwhile, as we wait for the elusive capitalist utopia, there are real-world issues that should be solved. The solutions will likely involve policy changes. Which will likely have both positive and negative outcomes. And the negative outcomes will probably require further policy changes in the future.
    - fc417fc802 2y ago
      > The solutions will likely involve policy changes. We're in agreement. My point was that the issue is due to policy. Landlords aren't the problem. Getting rid of landlords would at best be a tiny bandaid and you'd have to change policy to do it so you might as well just address the root cause.
tonyedgecombe 2y ago
Both types of landlord have their own problems. Personally I’d prefer the state to own more properties.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  I've had some annoying landlords, but I would take every one over Trump. People tend to imagine a counterfactual where the state is idealized instead of looking at the state they have.
  - saikia81 2y ago
    in the Netherlands the state managed housing is the best. While private renters skirt their responsibilities, and enforcing a contractual is hard.

gruez 2y ago

>too many landlords. Unless you want "buy" (as opposed to "rent") to be the only option for housing, you need landlords. If there's going to be landlords, you want more of them, because more supply translates to lower prices for consumers. Nobody complains about there being too many farmers, for instance.

swagasaurus-rex 2y ago
I'd like to buy. My father bought his first house when he was 23. He came from poverty and had a middle-class job. I'm ten years older than he was and I still can't afford a house.
- Analemma_ 2y ago
  Your beef isn’t with landlords, it’s with the single-family homeowners in your area who use every available legal and extralegal angle to block any new construction, because “it would change the neighborhood character”. They fuck you over and get to absolve themselves of blame and guilt by talking about evil developers and landlords as a smokescreen to keep you from seeing that they are the problem.
  - swagasaurus-rex 2y ago
    As much as I'd like to agree, nationwide the prices of housing has skyrocketed. In the last 5 years, there's been a 50% increase in home prices where now $450,000 is the median home price. Can it be that the issue you're describing explains what's happening in every single state? Has development stalled all across the USA (and abroad) simply due to regulation?
    - thereisnospork 2y ago
      >Can it be that the issue you're describing explains what's happening in every single state? Has development stalled all across the USA (and abroad) simply due to regulation? I mean this is pretty trivially true, excepting some markets like Japan. 100-200 thousand dollars of wood and drywall and concrete sells for 0.5 to 2 million in much of the country. People (builders) haven't started hating money, they just aren't allowed to build. Heck if it were legal I'd personally find some investors, buy up a few 1 million dollar sfh's and replace them with 8 500k condos each.