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Another source of allegations about the behaviour at Meta comes from 7amleh's report on how they systematically suppressed what Americans and others were allowe

Another source of allegations about the behaviour at Meta comes from 7amleh's report on how they systematically suppressed what Americans and others were allowed see about Israel's invasion of Palestine. https://7amleh.org/storage/Advocacy%20Reports/Delete%20the%20issue-11.11.pdf https://7amleh.org/storage/Advocacy%20Reports/Delete%20the%2...

ToucanLoucan 2y ago
Americans are one of the most, if not the most, propagandized populations on the planet, and the worst part is a large cohort of them fully believe they aren’t.
- fellow_eng_25 2y ago
  Don't forget the Germans.
  - throwawayqqq11 2y ago
    ... changes what exactly? Certainly not the required ignorance to stay in your propaganda sphere.
- thomassmith65 2y ago
  Social media has democratized propaganda. Political messages often come from ostensibly small, independent outlets now - outlets whose incentives are no better than those of governments. A show might be hosted by a couple teenagers in hoodies, but if the hosts are audience-captured, or supported by powerful interests, or just hold strong, irrational views, it's still just bad propaganda.
  - throwawayqqq11 2y ago
    >Social media has democratized propaganda. I find this sentence very wrong since the corporations or algorithms are not really under democratic controll. You even continue to implicate that small creators are blown out of (democratic) proportion.
    - thomassmith65 2y ago
      the corporations or algorithms are not really under democratic control That is true. Social media is democratic only to a point. If it were truly representative of the general public, it might be an improvement (or less sensational, at least). Re: small creators. There are many creators who seem small - like Joe Rogan - but actually operate on a scale that places intense pressures on them. People tend to give more trust to 'influencers' than they should because they seem relatable.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  For what it's worth, Americans still have access to opposing viewpoints. You can view Press TV, Russia Today, etc. Authoritarian states will ban completely access to news it doesn't want its population to read
liorsbg 2y ago
[flagged]
- specproc 2y ago
  Some more information about ngo-monitor: > NGO Monitor is a right-wing organization based in Jerusalem that reports on international NGO (non-governmental organisation) activity from a pro-Israel perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGO_Monitor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGO_Monitor
  - briandear 2y ago
    If it were “left wing” would you have provided the reference?
  - liorsbg 2y ago
    Unfortunately Wikipedia is no longer a reliable neutral source on this issue: https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-israel-and-anti-jewish-bias-undermines-wikipedias-neutrality https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-i...
petesergeant 2y ago
This paper seems to mainly suggest that the suppression is happening on the internal platforms that Meta's employees and content-moderators use, for discussions, rather than that they're censoring what I would see an an end user?
- pbiggar 2y ago
  Yes, that is the mechanism of how the suppression is pushed internally. For details of the actual suppression, see these reports / documentaries: - https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/20/meta-systemic-censorship-palestine-content https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/20/meta-systemic-censorship... - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmnQhEQIjKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmnQhEQIjKc - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12btf2Oq820 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12btf2Oq820 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeaJJU2zHh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeaJJU2zHh8 (haven't read this one, but it's from the BBC. For more details on how the BBC restricts Palestine content, see this piece: https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/bbc-civil-war-gaza-israel-biased-coverage https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/bbc-civil-war-gaza-israel-bia...)
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  You're right, this report isn't about the actual censorship of end-user content, but that was also quite widespread. Zuck even himself admitted how the US government would pressure them to censor certain things, but he discussed it in the context of COVID. Similar things happened about Israel-Palestine as well
gryzzly 2y ago
[flagged]
- pbiggar 2y ago
  I'm referring to Israel's invasion of Palestine, which in this specific instance started on October 9, 2023 or so, and resulted in the total destruction of Gaza, and the direct killing of 60,000, and the indirect killing of possibly 300,000. This is the invasion that had more bombs dropped on Gazan civilians than were dropped in the entire Afghanistan war. And one in which Israeli snipers repeatedly shot and killed children, doctors, and journalists. I was not specifically referring to Israel's 17 year blockade of Gaza, during which it destroyed their airport, port, and control the water supply and electricity, which it has currently cut off, a severe war crime. Nor am I specifically referring to Israel's invasion of the West Bank, currently happening, where Israel has recently stolen more land than all the land it stole since the Oslo accords. Nor am I specifically referring to Israel's brutal domination of Palestine since its invasion in 1948, during which European refugees drove 750,000 native Palestinians from their homes, stealing their land and massacring over 15,000 in a series of brutal attacks.
  - gryzzly 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - pbiggar 2y ago
      Here's are some references for you. Children and doctors: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-doctor-interviews.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-... Press: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/1-year-of-gaza-genocide/1-year-of-gaza-genocide-israeli-war-deadliest-in-decades-for-journalists-says-journo-federation-chief/3354653 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/1-year-of-gaza-genocide/1-year-of-g... All of these are easy to discover with a simple Google search. I encourage you to break out of the bubble you appear to be in.
      - gryzzly 2y ago
aprilthird2021 2y ago
Note that all the replies to this have conveniently steered the conversation into fighting over the Israel-Palestine war and gotten us to not talk about the actual point, that FB very credibly worked alongside the US gov't to suppress what Americans saw about the war on social media, lots of times suppressing actual journalists with press vests who were reporting from within Gaza at a time when formal press were banned by Israel from entering Gaza (meaning reliance on the ones already inside was crucial)

ToucanLoucan 2y ago

Americans are one of the most, if not the most, propagandized populations on the planet, and the worst part is a large cohort of them fully believe they aren’t.

fellow_eng_25 2y ago
Don't forget the Germans.
- throwawayqqq11 2y ago
  ... changes what exactly? Certainly not the required ignorance to stay in your propaganda sphere.
thomassmith65 2y ago
Social media has democratized propaganda. Political messages often come from ostensibly small, independent outlets now - outlets whose incentives are no better than those of governments. A show might be hosted by a couple teenagers in hoodies, but if the hosts are audience-captured, or supported by powerful interests, or just hold strong, irrational views, it's still just bad propaganda.
- throwawayqqq11 2y ago
  >Social media has democratized propaganda. I find this sentence very wrong since the corporations or algorithms are not really under democratic controll. You even continue to implicate that small creators are blown out of (democratic) proportion.
  - thomassmith65 2y ago
    the corporations or algorithms are not really under democratic control That is true. Social media is democratic only to a point. If it were truly representative of the general public, it might be an improvement (or less sensational, at least). Re: small creators. There are many creators who seem small - like Joe Rogan - but actually operate on a scale that places intense pressures on them. People tend to give more trust to 'influencers' than they should because they seem relatable.
aprilthird2021 2y ago
For what it's worth, Americans still have access to opposing viewpoints. You can view Press TV, Russia Today, etc. Authoritarian states will ban completely access to news it doesn't want its population to read

liorsbg 2y ago

[flagged]

specproc 2y ago
Some more information about ngo-monitor: > NGO Monitor is a right-wing organization based in Jerusalem that reports on international NGO (non-governmental organisation) activity from a pro-Israel perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGO_Monitor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGO_Monitor
- briandear 2y ago
  If it were “left wing” would you have provided the reference?
- liorsbg 2y ago
  Unfortunately Wikipedia is no longer a reliable neutral source on this issue: https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-israel-and-anti-jewish-bias-undermines-wikipedias-neutrality https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-i...

petesergeant 2y ago

This paper seems to mainly suggest that the suppression is happening on the internal platforms that Meta's employees and content-moderators use, for discussions, rather than that they're censoring what I would see an an end user?

pbiggar 2y ago
Yes, that is the mechanism of how the suppression is pushed internally. For details of the actual suppression, see these reports / documentaries: - https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/20/meta-systemic-censorship-palestine-content https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/20/meta-systemic-censorship... - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmnQhEQIjKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmnQhEQIjKc - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12btf2Oq820 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12btf2Oq820 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeaJJU2zHh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeaJJU2zHh8 (haven't read this one, but it's from the BBC. For more details on how the BBC restricts Palestine content, see this piece: https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/bbc-civil-war-gaza-israel-biased-coverage https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/bbc-civil-war-gaza-israel-bia...)
aprilthird2021 2y ago
You're right, this report isn't about the actual censorship of end-user content, but that was also quite widespread. Zuck even himself admitted how the US government would pressure them to censor certain things, but he discussed it in the context of COVID. Similar things happened about Israel-Palestine as well

gryzzly 2y ago

[flagged]

pbiggar 2y ago
I'm referring to Israel's invasion of Palestine, which in this specific instance started on October 9, 2023 or so, and resulted in the total destruction of Gaza, and the direct killing of 60,000, and the indirect killing of possibly 300,000. This is the invasion that had more bombs dropped on Gazan civilians than were dropped in the entire Afghanistan war. And one in which Israeli snipers repeatedly shot and killed children, doctors, and journalists. I was not specifically referring to Israel's 17 year blockade of Gaza, during which it destroyed their airport, port, and control the water supply and electricity, which it has currently cut off, a severe war crime. Nor am I specifically referring to Israel's invasion of the West Bank, currently happening, where Israel has recently stolen more land than all the land it stole since the Oslo accords. Nor am I specifically referring to Israel's brutal domination of Palestine since its invasion in 1948, during which European refugees drove 750,000 native Palestinians from their homes, stealing their land and massacring over 15,000 in a series of brutal attacks.
- gryzzly 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - pbiggar 2y ago
    Here's are some references for you. Children and doctors: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-doctor-interviews.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-... Press: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/1-year-of-gaza-genocide/1-year-of-gaza-genocide-israeli-war-deadliest-in-decades-for-journalists-says-journo-federation-chief/3354653 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/1-year-of-gaza-genocide/1-year-of-g... All of these are easy to discover with a simple Google search. I encourage you to break out of the bubble you appear to be in.
    - gryzzly 2y ago

aprilthird2021 2y ago

Note that all the replies to this have conveniently steered the conversation into fighting over the Israel-Palestine war and gotten us to not talk about the actual point, that FB very credibly worked alongside the US gov't to suppress what Americans saw about the war on social media, lots of times suppressing actual journalists with press vests who were reporting from within Gaza at a time when formal press were banned by Israel from entering Gaza (meaning reliance on the ones already inside was crucial)