4 ms·

Pine64's RISC-V tablet now ships with a Debian-based Linux and improved hardware

53 points by ndsipa_pomu 2y ago

sylware 2y ago
I would connect my 4G USB modem and my USB 'dvorak' keyboard. Would I need a _powered_ USB HUB? And I would need a kind of a "stand", which would not be the keyboard.
- Y_Y 2y ago
  We don't know what kind of devices you have. But probably they won't need external power. And for a stand it should suffice to use any nearby object.
  - woolion 2y ago
    Although that seems to be the most logical answer, on the PinePhone plugging the most basic wired keyboard (that does not even have a backlight) reduces the luminosity of the screen to the minimum. Small device tend to be very fiddly with power requirements even for simple tasks (e.g. the older raspberry pi models).
- wkat4242 2y ago
  4G modems tend to need a lot of oomph from the power supply. I'm not sure how much this port offers but standard USB 5V x 0.5A (2.5W) is not going to cut it. TX power alone can go up to 2W and that doesn't include processing, losses etc.
wiz21c 2y ago
Will they ever upgrade their PinePhone offer ? I'm desperately looking for a linux smartphone at a mid-price (500EUR for a phone is way too much). I can definitevely live with sub optimal performance, not-so-good camera, etc.
- fsflover 2y ago
  They already have the Pinephone Pro, don't they?
NeutralForest 2y ago
I've been looking at Pine64 stuff to play around (the laptop mainly) but in Europe at least, it's constantly out of order.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  The Pinebook Pro laptop looks to be available from their global store. They mention that their shipping of that is different due to the battery, so I wonder if that's why they don't keep it in stock. It also seems to be a lot more expensive in their EU store. Edit: Seen this on their January blog https://pine64.org/2025/01/11/january_2025/ https://pine64.org/2025/01/11/january_2025/ : > The Pinebook Pro is no longer in production and will therefore no longer be stocked on the PineStore. This is due to the switch of focus to the PineTab and the PineNote line of devices. There are plans to continue the Pinebook series, and it will return in the future when a suitable SOC is chosen.
  - NeutralForest 2y ago
    Hmm ok, let's see where this goes. I don't mind them experimenting with ARM or whatever.
    - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
      I bought a PinebookPro laptop a few years ago and I liked it for what it was. I played around with IIRC Manjaro Linux on it, but got a bit stuck with trying to set it up with encrypted boot disk (on the additional NVMe drive) and moved onto something else. Maybe I should pick it up again and give it another go.
- hollerith 2y ago
  "Out of stock", you mean.
  - NeutralForest 2y ago
    Yes, you got it.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
leephillips 2y ago
This has a miserable 1280 x 800 pixel screen and eMMC storage. If you are interested in a tablet running Linux, I think my daily driver might be a better choice: A Microsoft Surface Pro 3 running Debian¹ with very few problems. It has a 2160 x 1440 touchscreen and a real SSD. Easy to find used/reconditioned for about $100.² [1] https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface [2] https://www.ebay.com/itm/205341079054 https://www.ebay.com/itm/205341079054
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  The important point of this product is that it's powered by RISC-V, so it's a cheap and convenient way to get RISC-V hardware into the hands of developers and tinkerers.
  - leephillips 2y ago
    Point taken.
rollcat 2y ago
Honest question. I've been looking both at iPads and Thinkpads for a device that I can carry around, sit in a cafe with, do some typing, watch videos, play games, etc. Both of these are powerful and capable on their own, but also have unique strengths: an iPad is truly lightweight and has great battery, a Thinkpad can be docked and used as a regular workstation, etc. Assuming I want the best value for my money, why would I choose a PINETAB over either of those? I truly believe in RISC-V, but right now it is hardly a selling point: <https://chimera-linux.org/news/2025/03/dropping-riscv.html https://chimera-linux.org/news/2025/03/dropping-riscv.html>
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  Most of the Pine64 range is designed for developers/tinkerers rather than end-users. This is great for people who want to play around with RISC-V hardware, but not so much for general users who'd be better off with a typical ARM powered tablet. Your link to Chimera Linux actually illustrates the point of this kind of product - a pinetab is a cheap way to get your hands on easily usable hardware and port your favourite distro or software to it. I'd also add that RISC-V performance isn't on par with ARM chips yet. The reason that manufacturers would want to use them has more to do with economics - no need to pay ARM for using their processors.
  - rollcat 2y ago
    That's why I wonder, who is this device being sold to? I do understand why RISC-V appeals to enthusiasts - I've been eyeing a couple RISC-V SBCs to potentially add to my homelab - I just don't understand the form factor. I sure as hell wouldn't carry two tablet/laptop-sized devices with me. Doing systems work in-system is a recipe for bricking the device until you can carry it back home. Doing integration work is much more productive if you can play with a dozen different CSI or DSI peripherals, rather than being stuck with one of each. I linked Chimera specifically to point out they've been building/porting apps thru an emulator, since it was more performant and readily available. We've already ruled out using it for consuming media, and all but the most basic work. So what kind of hacker/enthusiast stuff can I actually do with this device specifically? It just looks like the worst of all worlds to me?

53 points by ndsipa_pomu 2y ago

I would connect my 4G USB modem and my USB 'dvorak' keyboard. Would I need a _powered_ USB HUB? And I would need a kind of a "stand", which would not be the keyboard.

Y_Y 2y ago
We don't know what kind of devices you have. But probably they won't need external power. And for a stand it should suffice to use any nearby object.
- woolion 2y ago
  Although that seems to be the most logical answer, on the PinePhone plugging the most basic wired keyboard (that does not even have a backlight) reduces the luminosity of the screen to the minimum. Small device tend to be very fiddly with power requirements even for simple tasks (e.g. the older raspberry pi models).
wkat4242 2y ago
4G modems tend to need a lot of oomph from the power supply. I'm not sure how much this port offers but standard USB 5V x 0.5A (2.5W) is not going to cut it. TX power alone can go up to 2W and that doesn't include processing, losses etc.

wiz21c 2y ago

Will they ever upgrade their PinePhone offer ? I'm desperately looking for a linux smartphone at a mid-price (500EUR for a phone is way too much). I can definitevely live with sub optimal performance, not-so-good camera, etc.

fsflover 2y ago
They already have the Pinephone Pro, don't they?

NeutralForest 2y ago

I've been looking at Pine64 stuff to play around (the laptop mainly) but in Europe at least, it's constantly out of order.

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
The Pinebook Pro laptop looks to be available from their global store. They mention that their shipping of that is different due to the battery, so I wonder if that's why they don't keep it in stock. It also seems to be a lot more expensive in their EU store. Edit: Seen this on their January blog https://pine64.org/2025/01/11/january_2025/ https://pine64.org/2025/01/11/january_2025/ : > The Pinebook Pro is no longer in production and will therefore no longer be stocked on the PineStore. This is due to the switch of focus to the PineTab and the PineNote line of devices. There are plans to continue the Pinebook series, and it will return in the future when a suitable SOC is chosen.
- NeutralForest 2y ago
  Hmm ok, let's see where this goes. I don't mind them experimenting with ARM or whatever.
  - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
    I bought a PinebookPro laptop a few years ago and I liked it for what it was. I played around with IIRC Manjaro Linux on it, but got a bit stuck with trying to set it up with encrypted boot disk (on the additional NVMe drive) and moved onto something else. Maybe I should pick it up again and give it another go.
hollerith 2y ago
"Out of stock", you mean.
- NeutralForest 2y ago
  Yes, you got it.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

leephillips 2y ago

This has a miserable 1280 x 800 pixel screen and eMMC storage. If you are interested in a tablet running Linux, I think my daily driver might be a better choice: A Microsoft Surface Pro 3 running Debian¹ with very few problems. It has a 2160 x 1440 touchscreen and a real SSD. Easy to find used/reconditioned for about $100.² [1] https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface [2] https://www.ebay.com/itm/205341079054 https://www.ebay.com/itm/205341079054

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
The important point of this product is that it's powered by RISC-V, so it's a cheap and convenient way to get RISC-V hardware into the hands of developers and tinkerers.
- leephillips 2y ago
  Point taken.

rollcat 2y ago

Honest question. I've been looking both at iPads and Thinkpads for a device that I can carry around, sit in a cafe with, do some typing, watch videos, play games, etc. Both of these are powerful and capable on their own, but also have unique strengths: an iPad is truly lightweight and has great battery, a Thinkpad can be docked and used as a regular workstation, etc. Assuming I want the best value for my money, why would I choose a PINETAB over either of those? I truly believe in RISC-V, but right now it is hardly a selling point: <https://chimera-linux.org/news/2025/03/dropping-riscv.html https://chimera-linux.org/news/2025/03/dropping-riscv.html>

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
Most of the Pine64 range is designed for developers/tinkerers rather than end-users. This is great for people who want to play around with RISC-V hardware, but not so much for general users who'd be better off with a typical ARM powered tablet. Your link to Chimera Linux actually illustrates the point of this kind of product - a pinetab is a cheap way to get your hands on easily usable hardware and port your favourite distro or software to it. I'd also add that RISC-V performance isn't on par with ARM chips yet. The reason that manufacturers would want to use them has more to do with economics - no need to pay ARM for using their processors.
- rollcat 2y ago
  That's why I wonder, who is this device being sold to? I do understand why RISC-V appeals to enthusiasts - I've been eyeing a couple RISC-V SBCs to potentially add to my homelab - I just don't understand the form factor. I sure as hell wouldn't carry two tablet/laptop-sized devices with me. Doing systems work in-system is a recipe for bricking the device until you can carry it back home. Doing integration work is much more productive if you can play with a dozen different CSI or DSI peripherals, rather than being stuck with one of each. I linked Chimera specifically to point out they've been building/porting apps thru an emulator, since it was more performant and readily available. We've already ruled out using it for consuming media, and all but the most basic work. So what kind of hacker/enthusiast stuff can I actually do with this device specifically? It just looks like the worst of all worlds to me?